Why I hate beaked hooks

Warren,

You got me going on this area a bit with your help when I was trying to
refine my Wacky Wormin'. I am learning a bit about it now as I refine my
crank bait techniques.

I have to say after barely getting a couple fish in the boat that were
hooked through light tissue or only skin hooked I doubt you could convince
me to go for a double hookset. Yes I did try a second hookset on a bass the
other day, after I had two or three come off on me. It didn't seem to make
any difference. My thought is to go with as wide a gap hook as you feel the
bait can support, and stay with ultra sharp (brand name not withstanding)
high quality hooks. It was after that I had the accidental revelation that
I was using the wrong rod for the job.

I still have some issue to resolve for some baits, but I'm working on it.

For any bait that uses a small light hook I would have to say that an ultra
sharp hook on a lighter slower rod would be the way to go. I am going to
dig a couple medium / medium or medium slow rods out of the stuff I had put
away for drop shots, crank baits, and topwater. All of my crank baits have
top quality hooks as do my topwaters. I'll have to rely on the penetration
of a sharp point, but I can't see myself going for a second hookset again.

IMHO, its about finding the exact best hook for a particular application,
and using the best rod for the job. Hook set is extremely important for
heavy plastics, but I just don't see myself going for a second hookset. The
only time I could see going for a second hookset is if I never got a first
hook set. Those moments when a fish hits, and you set on it only to feel
slack line as the fish dives towards you.

I defer to your expertise most times, as I have learned quite a lot from
your posts when you choose to be helpful, but the second hookset just
dosen't cut it for me. Certainly not with smaller hooks like that.


--
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"go-bassn" wrote in message
...
Yea but what about the times when you instantly say (before loosing the
fish) to yourself "damn, I don't think I got all of that one..."

Warren

"Eric Dreher" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:08:47 -0500, "Chris Rennert"
wrote:

I definitely agree about multiple hook sets. I just use the sharpest
hooks
I possibly can and that gives me the confidence that when I stick them,
I
got them.

I can only think of three or four time that I "double-set" the hook.
Each time resulted in a lost fish.

As you, Chris, I just trust in a good hook...Gamakatsu, and replace
'em when they're worn out or bent for any reason.


----------------------------------------------
"Kerry's policies would run the country deeper
and deeper into deficit." - John Edwards

Bob, I'm not encouraging anyone to use a second set - don't misunderstand
me. I rarely (if ever) do it myself. I was simply stating that there have
been times when, for whatever reason, my initial hookset was not exactly
solid & the result has been a lost bass & a missed opportunity. In the
tournament game we play opportunities simply can't be missed. So I was
saying that there were times when I wished I had applied a second hookset,
not that I make a habit of it...

Warren

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Warren,

You got me going on this area a bit with your help when I was trying to
refine my Wacky Wormin'. I am learning a bit about it now as I refine my
crank bait techniques.

I have to say after barely getting a couple fish in the boat that were
hooked through light tissue or only skin hooked I doubt you could convince
me to go for a double hookset. Yes I did try a second hookset on a bass
the
other day, after I had two or three come off on me. It didn't seem to
make
any difference. My thought is to go with as wide a gap hook as you feel
the
bait can support, and stay with ultra sharp (brand name not withstanding)
high quality hooks. It was after that I had the accidental revelation
that
I was using the wrong rod for the job.

I still have some issue to resolve for some baits, but I'm working on it.

For any bait that uses a small light hook I would have to say that an
ultra
sharp hook on a lighter slower rod would be the way to go. I am going to
dig a couple medium / medium or medium slow rods out of the stuff I had
put
away for drop shots, crank baits, and topwater. All of my crank baits
have
top quality hooks as do my topwaters. I'll have to rely on the
penetration
of a sharp point, but I can't see myself going for a second hookset again.

IMHO, its about finding the exact best hook for a particular application,
and using the best rod for the job. Hook set is extremely important for
heavy plastics, but I just don't see myself going for a second hookset.
The
only time I could see going for a second hookset is if I never got a first
hook set. Those moments when a fish hits, and you set on it only to feel
slack line as the fish dives towards you.

I defer to your expertise most times, as I have learned quite a lot from
your posts when you choose to be helpful, but the second hookset just
dosen't cut it for me. Certainly not with smaller hooks like that.


--
** FREE Fishing Lures
** Weekly drawing
** Public Fishing and Boating Forums
** www.YumaBassMan.com


"go-bassn" wrote in message
...
Yea but what about the times when you instantly say (before loosing the
fish) to yourself "damn, I don't think I got all of that one..."

Warren

"Eric Dreher" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:08:47 -0500, "Chris Rennert"
wrote:

I definitely agree about multiple hook sets. I just use the sharpest
hooks
I possibly can and that gives me the confidence that when I stick
them,
I
got them.

I can only think of three or four time that I "double-set" the hook.
Each time resulted in a lost fish.

As you, Chris, I just trust in a good hook...Gamakatsu, and replace
'em when they're worn out or bent for any reason.


----------------------------------------------
"Kerry's policies would run the country deeper
and deeper into deficit." - John Edwards

Bob wrote:
My thought is to go with as wide a gap hook as you feel the
bait can support,


Actually, from a purely mechanical standpoint, wider gap hooks are harder to
set and easier to back out than standard gap hooks.


RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

"RichZ" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:
My thought is to go with as wide a gap hook as you feel the
bait can support,


Actually, from a purely mechanical standpoint, wider gap hooks are harder
to
set and easier to back out than standard gap hooks.



WHY?
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** www.YumaBassMan.com

Why? I can see why it might be easier to work out if there is a big bait or
pegged weight next tot he shank since it would be the equivelent of a longer
lever, but why is it harder to set, and why is it that I get more and better
hooksets in most circumstances by using a wider gap hook.

--
** FREE Fishing Lures
** Weekly drawing
** Public Fishing and Boating Forums
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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"RichZ" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:
My thought is to go with as wide a gap hook as you feel the
bait can support,


Actually, from a purely mechanical standpoint, wider gap hooks are
harder
to
set and easier to back out than standard gap hooks.



WHY?
--
** FREE Fishing Lures
** Weekly drawing
** Public Fishing and Boating Forums
** www.YumaBassMan.com

A wide gap hook can 'rotate' out more easily. A the shank gets in the way
of rotating out on a narrower gap hook. It has to BACK out rather than
rotate out. A wide gap can do either.

As far as setting goes, amplify the effect to see it clearly. Take your
wide gap hook on really strong line, and put the tip of it against
something it doesn't want to penetrate easily. Eg, a piece of soft wood.
Pull slowly and watch the bend in the hook open up. Do the same with a
narrow gap hook of the same size. Note how much harder you have to pull to
open the bend. With a wide gap hook, the only solution to the hook's
tendency to open up is heavier wire (EG, Gamakatsu Super ine EWGs.) But
thicker wire increases the penetration resistance, so it's still harder to
set.

We've run this thing through computer modeling and real world tests till
we're sick of it. The best hook design from a standpoint of hooking fish
and staying hooked is a moderate gap with a sharp turn leading to a longer
than average length of wire between the bend and the barb.



RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 20:37:04 EDT, RichZ wrote:

We've run this thing through computer modeling and real world tests till
we're sick of it. The best hook design from a standpoint of hooking fish
and staying hooked is a moderate gap with a sharp turn leading to a longer
than average length of wire between the bend and the barb.



RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

Sounds an awful lot like a Texposer to me...

Harry J aka Thundercat
Brooklyn Bill's Tackle Shop Fishing Team
http://www.geocities.com/brooklynbill2003/products.html
Share the knowledge, compete on execution.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 20:37:04 EDT, RichZ wrote:

We've run this thing through computer modeling and real world tests till
we're sick of it. The best hook design from a standpoint of hooking fish
and staying hooked is a moderate gap with a sharp turn leading to a longer
than average length of wire between the bend and the barb.



RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

Sounds an awful lot like a Texposer to me...

Harry J aka Thundercat
Brooklyn Bill's Tackle Shop Fishing Team
http://www.geocities.com/brooklynbill2003/products.html
Share the knowledge, compete on execution.

Bob wrote:
My thought is to go with as wide a gap hook as you feel the
bait can support,


Actually, from a purely mechanical standpoint, wider gap hooks are harder to
set and easier to back out than standard gap hooks.


RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

Bob wrote:
My thought is to go with as wide a gap hook as you feel the
bait can support,


Actually, from a purely mechanical standpoint, wider gap hooks are harder to
set and easier to back out than standard gap hooks.


RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing