Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 02:13:43 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

I think you have to get to know the caddis in your river. If you have
diving egg-layers and emergers that move laterally as well as up, then
your odds are better.

I like caddis because they tend to come off in these long, sporadic
hatches rather than in the one, 20 minute blizzard common to mayflies.
There's always some caddis action going on, even if it's only a few
egg layers. Yesterday, there's hardly a caddis to be seen yet the
continual yet sporadic, egg-laying action keeps the trout interested.
I've never had a day quite like it before.

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Peter

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On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 02:13:43 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

_________________________________________________ ______________________

In my neck of the woods you can get by on four, Hydropsyche,
Cheumatopsyche, Rhyacophillia, and Glossosoma (spotted sedge #14,
little sister sedge #18, green rock worm #14, and tiny black caddis
#20, respectively). All of these caddis exhibit swimming egg-layers.
The first two are primarily tailwater species that do well in warmer
condtions while the last two are cold water species. I can do all of
my caddis work on the Grand with just the first two, though a
Glossosoma is handy early in the season. You should tie the first two
with both light and dark wings as they tend to get progressively
lighter as the season matures.

A Kings River Caddis is a great pattern for the spotted sedge while
the Henryville Special is a great, high floating, pocket water fly for
GRWs. I also tie the KRC pattern in GRW, LSS, and TBC colours/sizes
as well. The KRC style is a perfect, downwing generic style for
almost any caddis so I replicate it in the colours and sizes I need
for any of these bugs.

Peter

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On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 02:13:43 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.

I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?

Mu

_________________________________________________ ______________________

In my neck of the woods you can get by on four, Hydropsyche,
Cheumatopsyche, Rhyacophillia, and Glossosoma (spotted sedge #14,
little sister sedge #18, green rock worm #14, and tiny black caddis
#20, respectively). All of these caddis exhibit swimming egg-layers.
The first two are primarily tailwater species that do well in warmer
condtions while the last two are cold water species. I can do all of
my caddis work on the Grand with just the first two, though a
Glossosoma is handy early in the season. You should tie the first two
with both light and dark wings as they tend to get progressively
lighter as the season matures.

A Kings River Caddis is a great pattern for the spotted sedge while
the Henryville Special is a great, high floating, pocket water fly for
GRWs. I also tie the KRC pattern in GRW, LSS, and TBC colours/sizes
as well. The KRC style is a perfect, downwing generic style for
almost any caddis so I replicate it in the colours and sizes I need
for any of these bugs.

Peter

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Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Clarification:

Cinnamon Caddis, Spotted Sedge, Hydropsyche bifida, and the
Ceratopsyche are all the same bug as far as we're concerned. H.
bifida was renamed Ceratopsyche. Some spotted sedges don't have
spots, hence the cinnamon caddis name.

My references for all of this a

"Caddisflies" by Gary Lafontaine
"Caddis Super hatches" by Carl Richards and Bob Braendle
"The Caddisfly Handbook: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst and
Carl Richards
"Hatch Guide for New England Steams" by Thomas Ames, jr.
"Trout Stream Insects: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst

Peter

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Clarification:

Cinnamon Caddis, Spotted Sedge, Hydropsyche bifida, and the
Ceratopsyche are all the same bug as far as we're concerned. H.
bifida was renamed Ceratopsyche. Some spotted sedges don't have
spots, hence the cinnamon caddis name.

My references for all of this a

"Caddisflies" by Gary Lafontaine
"Caddis Super hatches" by Carl Richards and Bob Braendle
"The Caddisfly Handbook: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst and
Carl Richards
"Hatch Guide for New England Steams" by Thomas Ames, jr.
"Trout Stream Insects: An Orvis Streamside Guide" by Dick Pobst

Peter

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Peter Charles wrote:

Two years ago, I tried to duplicate the female Hydropsyche caddis egg
layer as she dives down, releases eggs, drifts along, then swims back
up. I tried creating a pattern and fishing it in this down, drift,
and up but I didn't get a sniff. Into the "failure" bin it went.

Well, I'm out today on Whitemans Creek and there's nada happening.
I'm doing the minimalist thing so I have very little in the way of
different flies to try. But I do have the faliure. So I gave it a
"what the hell" and instead of deading drifting, I swing it.
Actually, I'm casting across stream, dead drifting, then swinging.
True to form, the dead drift still scores nada.

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing. The fly is tied on a
heavy wire hook and that proved to be a problem for getting good
hooksets on Whitemans little rainbows so the next batch will be a lead
wrapped light wire but I must've had in excess of 50 hits, about 20
hookups and a dozen or so landed.



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.

Willi

Peter Charles wrote:

Two years ago, I tried to duplicate the female Hydropsyche caddis egg
layer as she dives down, releases eggs, drifts along, then swims back
up. I tried creating a pattern and fishing it in this down, drift,
and up but I didn't get a sniff. Into the "failure" bin it went.

Well, I'm out today on Whitemans Creek and there's nada happening.
I'm doing the minimalist thing so I have very little in the way of
different flies to try. But I do have the faliure. So I gave it a
"what the hell" and instead of deading drifting, I swing it.
Actually, I'm casting across stream, dead drifting, then swinging.
True to form, the dead drift still scores nada.

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing. The fly is tied on a
heavy wire hook and that proved to be a problem for getting good
hooksets on Whitemans little rainbows so the next batch will be a lead
wrapped light wire but I must've had in excess of 50 hits, about 20
hookups and a dozen or so landed.



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.

Willi

Peter Charles wrote:

Two years ago, I tried to duplicate the female Hydropsyche caddis egg
layer as she dives down, releases eggs, drifts along, then swims back
up. I tried creating a pattern and fishing it in this down, drift,
and up but I didn't get a sniff. Into the "failure" bin it went.

Well, I'm out today on Whitemans Creek and there's nada happening.
I'm doing the minimalist thing so I have very little in the way of
different flies to try. But I do have the faliure. So I gave it a
"what the hell" and instead of deading drifting, I swing it.
Actually, I'm casting across stream, dead drifting, then swinging.
True to form, the dead drift still scores nada.

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing. The fly is tied on a
heavy wire hook and that proved to be a problem for getting good
hooksets on Whitemans little rainbows so the next batch will be a lead
wrapped light wire but I must've had in excess of 50 hits, about 20
hookups and a dozen or so landed.



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.

Willi

Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.


I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?


That's THE question. The technique is an easy and fun one but figuring
out when to use it is what's tough. It's a technique that works better
in some places than in others and I've been unable to find the reason
for it. It's is an especially good technique on my home river during the
Summer. Below are some things I have picked up about fishing a fly with
action, whether it be skittering or swinging or lifting or......

Times to try it:

When there are active flies about - caddis, stoneflies, craneflies, etc.
about

When you see splashy rises

During the dog days of Summer when you don't want to dredge the deep
holes for fish, fishing feeding riffles and giving your fly some action
will sometimes bring fish out of their doldrums.

When you see flashes of fish up in the water column.

When you haven't had any success with more traditional methods.


Places to try it:

Like Peter said, shallow riffles are probably the number one place.

The upstream lip of pools.

Sometime a slow dead driftish swing through a pool will work.


Willi

Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.


I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?


That's THE question. The technique is an easy and fun one but figuring
out when to use it is what's tough. It's a technique that works better
in some places than in others and I've been unable to find the reason
for it. It's is an especially good technique on my home river during the
Summer. Below are some things I have picked up about fishing a fly with
action, whether it be skittering or swinging or lifting or......

Times to try it:

When there are active flies about - caddis, stoneflies, craneflies, etc.
about

When you see splashy rises

During the dog days of Summer when you don't want to dredge the deep
holes for fish, fishing feeding riffles and giving your fly some action
will sometimes bring fish out of their doldrums.

When you see flashes of fish up in the water column.

When you haven't had any success with more traditional methods.


Places to try it:

Like Peter said, shallow riffles are probably the number one place.

The upstream lip of pools.

Sometime a slow dead driftish swing through a pool will work.


Willi