rod "modules " question

what is the significance or importance in graphite
'modules" count ? Does the higher count mean that the rod is more brittle
and fast.Is the higher count better? .In the last 4 yrs I've bought 30
rods or more searching for the right feel and have got to admit that the
best rods that I've found where so far are the higher end rod .The last 3
rods I've bought were GLommis and I find that I use them more
often,although I do have a Cabalas " fish eagle II " M 7ft that I really
use alot.I guess my next step in a rod is to buy a custom made rod and
compare it to what I've already got.
Thanks
Ken Blevins

Ken, the term you refer to is "modulus" not to be correcting you at all. You
are correct to think that the higher the modulus of the graphite weave the
more brittle
it becomes. Also the higher the modulus becomes the "more" sensitive the
blank becomes. In the Loomis brand the IMX (Slate) series is the highest
that a rod builder can get. There are some blanks from other manufacturers
that rate as high as these but don't cost as much. Some of Allstars blanks
are very good, and my personal fav. are the Rainshadow IM7 Blanks. Contact
some builders and ask what they use for blanks. If they are stuck on only on
brand they aren't doing their homework. JMHO!

--
Dave Norton
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"kenneth blevins" wrote in message
...
what is the significance or importance in graphite
'modules" count ? Does the higher count mean that the rod is more brittle
and fast.Is the higher count better? .In the last 4 yrs I've bought 30
rods or more searching for the right feel and have got to admit that the
best rods that I've found where so far are the higher end rod .The last 3
rods I've bought were GLommis and I find that I use them more
often,although I do have a Cabalas " fish eagle II " M 7ft that I really
use alot.I guess my next step in a rod is to buy a custom made rod and
compare it to what I've already got.
Thanks
Ken Blevins

Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher

Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today as to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers put them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall weight . and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank will be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is just MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today as to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers put them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall weight .
and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank will be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not
believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is just MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher






Boron rods were the most sensitive. Can not remember who built them, but
the lightest, most sensitive and most fragile rods ever built. One of the
sal****er graphite rod makers are (GUSA I think) advertises a helix wound
rod, that supposed to be much less fragile as it does not collapse to an
oval under heavy load. The design of rods with modern fibers is still in
it's youth.
bill

Bill, do not be misled by slick advertising. As of today there is "No" epoxy
system that can hold up to a 100% boron rod. Boron is sometimes used in
conjunction with other materials , but not as a stand alone material for rod
blank design.

The method normally used by the best manufacturers is to sandwich 1 layer of
Boron material between several layers of graphite and fiberglass scrim. At
best you achieve a 12%to17% amount of Boron material. The reason for this is
that as I said there is no epoxy system toady that will not degrade when
applied to a !00% Boron material. What happens is delamination of the blank,
and performance is ruined. That is why there are no 100% Boron rod blanks on
the market.


--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today as
to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers put
them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall weight .
and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank will be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings
they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not
believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is just
MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of
the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher






Boron rods were the most sensitive. Can not remember who built them, but
the lightest, most sensitive and most fragile rods ever built. One of the
sal****er graphite rod makers are (GUSA I think) advertises a helix wound
rod, that supposed to be much less fragile as it does not collapse to an
oval under heavy load. The design of rods with modern fibers is still in
it's youth.
bill

Check out this url for a description of Graphite USA rods. And
prices...........and you all think custom builders charge to much...yeesh!

http://www.charkbait.com/cs/csrodsGraphiteUSA.htm

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today as
to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers put
them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall weight .
and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank will be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings
they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not
believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is just
MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of
the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher






Boron rods were the most sensitive. Can not remember who built them, but
the lightest, most sensitive and most fragile rods ever built. One of the
sal****er graphite rod makers are (GUSA I think) advertises a helix wound
rod, that supposed to be much less fragile as it does not collapse to an
oval under heavy load. The design of rods with modern fibers is still in
it's youth.
bill

I was not misled. Had friends with the Boron rods. Light, sensitive, if
you looked at them hard, they broke. Is just not the material to use with
the present technology. Major problems with graphite are bang or scratch
the blank. Get a high stress concentration point and blown rod. Or in salt
water fishing, which I also do, High Sticking like we used to do to lift a
salmon or tuna towards the surface. Those old glass sticks would get a U
bend. Do not try this with a graphite rod.
Bill

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Bill, do not be misled by slick advertising. As of today there is "No"
epoxy
system that can hold up to a 100% boron rod. Boron is sometimes used in
conjunction with other materials , but not as a stand alone material for
rod
blank design.

The method normally used by the best manufacturers is to sandwich 1 layer
of
Boron material between several layers of graphite and fiberglass scrim. At
best you achieve a 12%to17% amount of Boron material. The reason for this
is
that as I said there is no epoxy system toady that will not degrade when
applied to a !00% Boron material. What happens is delamination of the
blank,
and performance is ruined. That is why there are no 100% Boron rod blanks
on
the market.


--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today as
to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers put
them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus
weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall weight
..
and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank will
be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings
they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not
believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is just
MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of
the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher






Boron rods were the most sensitive. Can not remember who built them,
but
the lightest, most sensitive and most fragile rods ever built. One of
the
sal****er graphite rod makers are (GUSA I think) advertises a helix
wound
rod, that supposed to be much less fragile as it does not collapse to an
oval under heavy load. The design of rods with modern fibers is still
in
it's youth.
bill

And they are now doing an Acid Wrap. Is the old Roberts wrap with Roller
guides. American Roller makes the guides for spiral wrap. Got it's name
from a guy on the boat picking up the rod and twisting on the rollers. When
asked what he was doing, said straighting them. When informed it was
wrapped that way. He said the wrapper must have been on Acid. Name stuck.
But when you are are on one end of the pole and a 200#+ Yellow Fin Tuna is
on the other, you need a really good rod. And you put a $500+ reel on the
rod.
Bill

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Check out this url for a description of Graphite USA rods. And
prices...........and you all think custom builders charge to much...yeesh!

http://www.charkbait.com/cs/csrodsGraphiteUSA.htm

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today as
to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers put
them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus
weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall weight
..
and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank will
be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings
they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not
believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is just
MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of
the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher






Boron rods were the most sensitive. Can not remember who built them,
but
the lightest, most sensitive and most fragile rods ever built. One of
the
sal****er graphite rod makers are (GUSA I think) advertises a helix
wound
rod, that supposed to be much less fragile as it does not collapse to an
oval under heavy load. The design of rods with modern fibers is still
in
it's youth.
bill

Since one of my kid's sponsers is Graphite USA, I won't get into any
comparison thing...but, his new signature rods are "fun" to
fish....course I ain't paying the "prices" grin!
JK