rod "modules " question

I was not misled. Had friends with the Boron rods. Light, sensitive, if
you looked at them hard, they broke. Is just not the material to use with
the present technology. Major problems with graphite are bang or scratch
the blank. Get a high stress concentration point and blown rod. Or in salt
water fishing, which I also do, High Sticking like we used to do to lift a
salmon or tuna towards the surface. Those old glass sticks would get a U
bend. Do not try this with a graphite rod.
Bill

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Bill, do not be misled by slick advertising. As of today there is "No"
epoxy
system that can hold up to a 100% boron rod. Boron is sometimes used in
conjunction with other materials , but not as a stand alone material for
rod
blank design.

The method normally used by the best manufacturers is to sandwich 1 layer
of
Boron material between several layers of graphite and fiberglass scrim. At
best you achieve a 12%to17% amount of Boron material. The reason for this
is
that as I said there is no epoxy system toady that will not degrade when
applied to a !00% Boron material. What happens is delamination of the
blank,
and performance is ruined. That is why there are no 100% Boron rod blanks
on
the market.


--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today as
to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers put
them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus
weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall weight
..
and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank will
be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings
they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not
believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is just
MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus of
the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher






Boron rods were the most sensitive. Can not remember who built them,
but
the lightest, most sensitive and most fragile rods ever built. One of
the
sal****er graphite rod makers are (GUSA I think) advertises a helix
wound
rod, that supposed to be much less fragile as it does not collapse to an
oval under heavy load. The design of rods with modern fibers is still
in
it's youth.
bill

And that is my point Bill!

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I was not misled. Had friends with the Boron rods. Light, sensitive, if
you looked at them hard, they broke. Is just not the material to use with
the present technology. Major problems with graphite are bang or scratch
the blank. Get a high stress concentration point and blown rod. Or in
salt
water fishing, which I also do, High Sticking like we used to do to lift a
salmon or tuna towards the surface. Those old glass sticks would get a U
bend. Do not try this with a graphite rod.
Bill

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Bill, do not be misled by slick advertising. As of today there is "No"
epoxy
system that can hold up to a 100% boron rod. Boron is sometimes used in
conjunction with other materials , but not as a stand alone material for
rod
blank design.

The method normally used by the best manufacturers is to sandwich 1
layer
of
Boron material between several layers of graphite and fiberglass scrim.
At
best you achieve a 12%to17% amount of Boron material. The reason for
this
is
that as I said there is no epoxy system toady that will not degrade when
applied to a !00% Boron material. What happens is delamination of the
blank,
and performance is ruined. That is why there are no 100% Boron rod
blanks
on
the market.


--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Let me put it this way, blank manufacturers have many options today
as
to
the material used in a blank.

As I stated in a recent article, many blanks are a combination of
the
various moduli o. This is why we are now seeing blanks with a
higher
modulus rating that can withstand the rigors that average anglers
put
them
through.

But still, if a blank is built with primarily a 65 million modulus
weave
graphite to a) maintain thin walls, while reducing the overall
weight
.
and
b) to increase the sensitivity of the blank. Then yes that blank
will
be
more susceptible to failure.

As yet I have not seen or heard of any new "miracle"
material, which will give the manufacturers the high modulus ratings
they
seek, and still provide the strength
necessary to hold up to the average angler. Quite honestly I do not
believe
that the everyday angler has need for these rods. Course that is
just
MHO,
and we all know the adage concerning opinions o



--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"BassAngler" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote: "You are correct to think that the higher the modulus
of
the
graphite weave the more brittle it becomes."

Now Dave, is that correct with Today's materials?

--
Craig Baugher






Boron rods were the most sensitive. Can not remember who built them,
but
the lightest, most sensitive and most fragile rods ever built. One of
the
sal****er graphite rod makers are (GUSA I think) advertises a helix
wound
rod, that supposed to be much less fragile as it does not collapse to
an
oval under heavy load. The design of rods with modern fibers is still
in
it's youth.
bill

Had friends with the Boron rods. Light, sensitive, if
you looked at them hard, they broke. Is just not the material to use with
the present technology.

During practice for the April, 1988 Top Six at West Point Lake I pulled in a
rod and reel. When cleaned it was a Bass Pro Shops Boron Elite rod with a
Shimano Bantum Speedmaster reel on it. That rod and reel has bounced around in
my boat on the deck and in the rod locker for almost 16 years now.

Everyone that fishes with me knows how careful I am with my stuff - rods stay
on my deck, strapped down even while trailering,as long as I am not going more
than 300 miles. I usually have a stack of 8 to ten rods on each side of my
deck. There are usually another dozen or so in the rod locker bumping around
together.

I use it for throwing Spooks and buzzbaits. Never tried lifting tuna and salmon
with it - they come canned here. Maybe I just found a good one.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

As I said Ronnie, The better ones were a combo of graphite & boron or
fiberglass & boron. You will have never seen a 100% boron rod blank. They
will not hold up with present technology.

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"RGarri7470" wrote in message
...
Had friends with the Boron rods. Light, sensitive, if
you looked at them hard, they broke. Is just not the material to use
with
the present technology.

During practice for the April, 1988 Top Six at West Point Lake I pulled in
a
rod and reel. When cleaned it was a Bass Pro Shops Boron Elite rod with a
Shimano Bantum Speedmaster reel on it. That rod and reel has bounced
around in
my boat on the deck and in the rod locker for almost 16 years now.

Everyone that fishes with me knows how careful I am with my stuff - rods
stay
on my deck, strapped down even while trailering,as long as I am not going
more
than 300 miles. I usually have a stack of 8 to ten rods on each side of
my
deck. There are usually another dozen or so in the rod locker bumping
around
together.

I use it for throwing Spooks and buzzbaits. Never tried lifting tuna and
salmon
with it - they come canned here. Maybe I just found a good one.
Ronnie

http://fishing.about.com

You will have never seen a 100% boron rod blank. They
will not hold up with present technology.


In 19-something-or-other, (I'm thinking it was 1980) I had the opportunity
to fish Mexico's Lake Novilla with a small group of semi-notables from the
industry and some guys who were on the trip simply because they were
friends of Ray Scott. Not sure which classification I fit into. Anyway, to
get somewhere in the general vicinity of the point, two execs from Browning
were on the trip. This was before Browning started to get sold to someone
else every year or two. At the time, they had a rep for building very high
quality rods.

Browning had just introduce the first commercially available Boron fishing
rods, and gave one to everyone on the trip. These were pistol grip, 5-1/2
foot, medium heavy casting rods. According to the rod engineer on the trip,
the fibers in the blanks were 70% graphite, 22% boron and 8% glass. I had
that rod for years, and caught hundreds and hundreds of fish on it. I tried
to get them to build a straight handled, 6-6" rod for jig fishing, but they
insisted that everyone who had tried marketing rods of that style had
failed, and they were committed to pistol grips. Well, we know where the
high end rod market went over the next few years, don't we.

Oh yeah, the point. Here it is. The brought along a few 'experimental',
1--% boron fiber rods, each made with different resins. None of them
survived the trip. In fact, none of them survived a single day of fishing.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

RichZ wrote:
1--% boron fiber


Uhmmmm that should read "100% boron fiber"

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

Thanks for that Rich, it shows that they could get it right then and still
can't. So much for Boron rods!

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"RichZ" wrote in message
...
RichZ wrote:
1--% boron fiber


Uhmmmm that should read "100% boron fiber"

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

Oops, should have read "could not get it right then"!

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
""The Shadow"" wrote in message
...
Thanks for that Rich, it shows that they could get it right then and still
can't. So much for Boron rods!

--
"The Shadow"
Millennium Rods
"RichZ" wrote in message
...
RichZ wrote:
1--% boron fiber


Uhmmmm that should read "100% boron fiber"

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing