Re GRHE

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
.. The feathers were all there, all
completely fine, but I had no idea how to harvest them from the rotting,
bug
infected meat. How do people do it?

--riverman



Feathers may be plucked, washed and dried, and then placed in appropriate
containers and labelled as required. Ensure there is no meat adhering to
the quills, if necessary, cut the base of the quills off. Often feathers
will be infested with feather mites, ( among other things). "nuking" ( 30
seconds, 600 watt, Microwave, and then freezing) after three days, thaw out,
wash and allow to dry thoroughly, will get rid of such pests.

For mammals of various types, one must be extremely careful when harvesting.
Some of these things are severely infected with a whole host of pathogens.
Fleas, ticks, and a number of other parasites can also be dangerous. If you
see carcases with stuff crawling all over them, then they are best left
alone.

Many parasites will leave a carcase as soon as it cools below a certain
temperature, or the circulation ceases. They immediately seek a new victim.
If you happen to be there at the time, even though you are not the best host
for the parasite in question, they may well jump on you, and you may end up
collecting far more than you bargained for.

Before collecting roadkill and such stuff, you should spend some time
researching the methods used, and if you don´t know exactly how to handle
any particular carcase then leave it alone. It is not worth getting the
plague or similar, merely to save a few cents on fly-dressing materials.

Having said that, the main reason for collecting such stuff is not to save
money, but to obtain quantities and ranges of material of first class
quality, which one is often unable to purchase.

In many places it is illegal to harvest certain things in any case. In
Europe, things like foxes, dead cats, etc etc at the roadside should also
be treated with extreme care. They may be infected with fox-band-worm,
rabies, weills disease, and a number of other nasties. In the tropics, this
is likely to be even worse. Simply touching some things is enough to
transfer some of these infectious diseases.

When harvesting roadkill, heavy rubber gloves, powerful disinfectant spray,
easily sealable and robust plastic bags are essential items. A good sharp
knife, a pair of heavy scissors, pruning shears ( for cutting wings off
etc), are also required.

When preparing such material, great care must be taken to avoid contact with
blood, saliva, brain matter,( often used for tanning) etc etc. These may all
be infected with various things. While there is a certain "biological
barrier" for some diseases, and you can not contract them from an animal,
even a badly infected example, there are plenty of pathogens for which the
barrier is more or less non-existent.

If you are bitten by either an animal "in extremis", or by any of the
parasites which may have been present, then visit a doctor immediately, and
tell him exactly what happened and how.

Before doing any of this, you should have current inoculations relevant to
your area for the common diseases like lockjaw, etc etc.

One should only harvest fresh kills. Everything else is at least unpleasant
and can be dangerous. In cold weather, and climates, stuff keeps a lot
longer. In hot weather, it may be only a matter of an hour or so before
things get "high". Also, there is often no way of knowing why the animal in
question died, while this may be of mild academic interest, finding out by
contracting rabies is not the best answer to such a question.

There are some articles here on the matter, and on preparing the results.

http://www.sexyloops.com/connorsmetre/grayling5.shtml

TL
MC

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
. The feathers were all there, all
completely fine, but I had no idea how to harvest them from the rotting,
bug
infected meat. How do people do it?

--riverman



Feathers may be plucked, washed and dried, and then placed in appropriate
containers and labelled as required. Ensure there is no meat adhering to
the quills, if necessary, cut the base of the quills off. Often feathers
will be infested with feather mites, ( among other things). "nuking" ( 30
seconds, 600 watt, Microwave, and then freezing) after three days, thaw
out,
wash and allow to dry thoroughly, will get rid of such pests.


Very comprehensive, thanks Mike. What do feather mites look like, and if I
happened to have stuck a feather in my tying kit that has mites, will they
propagate onto the other stuff in there, or will they die off from lack of a
living host?

--riverman
(this may or may not be academic. I'll let you know....)

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Very comprehensive, thanks Mike. What do feather mites look like, and if I
happened to have stuck a feather in my tying kit that has mites, will they
propagate onto the other stuff in there, or will they die off from lack of
a
living host?

--riverman
(this may or may not be academic. I'll let you know....)



Feather mites, carpet beetles, moth larvae and a host of other pests feed on
feathers and similar. They do not require a living host, they eat the
compounds in the feather material. If you have such bugs in your materials,
they will damage and destroy them in a very short time, an hour is too long!
The only really sensible thing to do is to discard such materials, and
fumigate everything, but thorough nuking and washing will generally save
most things, if they are worth saving by the time you discover the damage.

you will find a lot of good info here;
http://www.uky.edu/~agrdanny/flyfish/petti.htm



The following may also be of help;

Well, thanks very much for the e-mails. However, it might be a better idea
to post them here, I am sure quite a few people would be interested. That is
after all what the board is for.

To the gent with the infested hare´s ears ( a most unfortunate affliction,
you have my deepest sympathy), as of yet, I have never met a trout who had
any idea at all about the anatomy of small land mammals, although I once
caught a fairly large one with a water shrew in its gut, ( Neomys fodiens,
for the purists).

I am extremely fortunate in being able to obtain whole skins of various
creatures, from quite a few very considerate local hunters I know, and a
few more from quite a few much less considerate drivers on the local main
road, whom I do not know.

This also allows me to obtain winter pelts, summer pelts, and animals in
various stages of growth. Colour and texture variations are massive, and a
great many natural colours may be obtained. I do resort to the dye-pot
occasionally however, but not for hare´s ears and the like.

To be perfectly honest, scraping, pulling, twitching, or even attempting to
cut the hair off a hares ear is a remarkably unrewarding operation, it is
invariably hard, scrappy, and in short supply. Mixing the body hair in a
particular way gives much better results, and is cheaper, easier, and
quicker.

It also presumably significantly reduces the incidence of deaf hares.

Much the same applies to a hare´s mask. A whole skin is a great deal more
useful, although you may of course use the mask as well if you wish.

Quality is a very difficult thing to describe in conjunction with pelts, or
"bits" like these. You have to see them and handle them, and preferably you
should get to know someone who knows what to look for. This is of course
extremely difficult I know. But you have no real option.

Buying various packets of stuff from mail order companies, or even local
tackle shops, in order to obtain a specific dubbing mix, will often result
in you being the proud possesor of a relatively large number of packets each
containing a meagre quantity of more or less unsuitable hair, of the wrong
colour and texture, and a huge quantity of extremely tatty shrivelled ears
and masks in various stages of decay, and occasionally even infested with
various interesting insects, until you find what you require.

One may of course simply work on the theory I evinced above, that trout do
not know anything much about hares, or their various appendages, and simply
use whatever you are able to obtain.

Should your ears be infested, then the best remedy is to throw them away.
You might however, assuming you are suffering from a severe dearth of ears,
try washing them in warm soapy water, allowing them to dry thoroughly, and
then placing them in the freezer for a few days.

This will usually get rid of practically all pests. Mark the bags carefully,
so you know what is in them! ( don´t put them next to the fish fingers by
the way,if you wish to avoid your girlfriends, wifes, partners, ire). Frozen
hare´s ears look much like a lot of other frozen stuff, but they are
absolutely disgusting when fried.

After you remove them from the freezer, place them in zip-lock bags or
airtigtht containers, containing moth crystals or similar.

DO NOT PUT THINGS LIKE HARES EARS AND MASKS IN THE MICROWAVE. The stink is
abominable, and the cooked hair is bloody useless anyway.

There is too much flesh still attached to such things usually, it may look
dry and harmless, but if you microwave it, you will be treated to at least
an inkling of what biochemical warfare means. It will of course kill the
pests you mention, but you wont be able to do much with the resulting
stinking mess.

TL
MC

Feathers are composed of about 91% protein, 8% water, and 1% lipids. The
type of protein in feathers is called keratin, a sulphurous, fibrous
protein. Fur and hair is similar in construction.

pH is an arbitrary measurement of acidity and alkalinity. Correct pH
environment is absolutely crucial to the preservation of feathers. Acidic
(pH 6 or lower) environments will cause the chemical breakdown of the
keratin, leading to weakening of the feather. Storing your feathers in
wooden boxes or next to paper exposes them to an acidic environment. The
rate of damage will increase as temperature and relative humidity increase.
So, a cool dry place, and no wood or paper in the packaging.

Alkalis (pH 8 or higher) can also cause feathers to break down. Alkali will
have a greater effect on the keratin structure than acids, which are fairly
specific, as they only break down the amino acid tryptophan. Alkalis are
found in many household cleansers, such as soaps and laundry detergents. If
you wash your feathers, then rinse them off in very copious quantities of
water, before drying and storing.

One common cause of damage is colour fading from exposure to light. Although
not as obvious, light may also cause other types of damage. As the energy
contained in light strikes your feathers, it will begin to break molecular
bonds. The breaking of these bonds results in color fading and structural
change, yellowing, and embrittlement of the feathers. If exposed to direct,
intense light, damage occurs very quickly and is immediately obvious. Just
as dangerous is exposure to moderate light levels over extended periods of
time. Light damage is cumulative, and will slowly build up over time.
Although your feathers may have been stored in dim light conditions, in time
the regular exposure to even low light levels will add to its gradual
deterioration.

Usually the first indication of damage is a littering of small pieces of
broken feather barbs in the bottom of the case or box. By then, it is too
late to salvage or repair the feather. (This is easily distiguishale from
beetle ****, and similar insect excreta). So store your feathers in a dark
place. Avoid buying capes and other feathers form display windows subject to
bright sunshine! Even top class capes will degrade very quickly indeed in
strong sunlight, and be more or less useless for tying flies. Quills split,
barbs break, etc etc. Apparently, not many tiers ( and pracically no tackle
shops!!!) are aware of this.

One may also wish to "bleach" or otherwise alter feathers by exposure to
light. Green peacock herl turns bronze when exposed to sunlight. ( I mention
this, as I have seen people trying to buy bronze peacock herl in shops, and
being told that it is "Difficult to obtain"). But if you overdo it, the
quill will split when being tied in. Its structure is materially altered.

Dyed feathers contain the dyes used to colour them of course, and may behave
oddly when exposed to light, various chemical fumes etc etc. This is rarely
desirable.

Various feather colours are dependent on numerous factors, far too many to
list here, ( If anybody is really interested, I do have a list!) But there
are any number of things which will have adverse effects on them.

These are the normal museum standards for the storage of feathers;
Minimal handling and dust protection are essential. The following are
tolerances for other environmental variables.
Temperatu 60 degrees F to 75 degrees F
Humidity: 45% to 55%
pH: 6.5 to 7.5
Visible light: 50 lux or less (the amount of light in a dim room)
Ultraviolet light: 75 microwatts per lumen or less


Absolute devastation of feathers by insect infestation is quite common.
Because keratin contains sulphur, it is a particular delicacy for some types
of insects. Clothes moths ( Adults have no functional mouth and cannot eat
the feathers. It is normally the larvae, identifiable by the cases they
spin, which cause the damage), and dermestid beetles ( "Carpet" beetles),
which are small hairy beetles, are especially fond of materials which
contain keratin. Feather mites, and a whole variety of other creatures will
also readily infest feathers and fur, especially if it is still on the skin.

A sure sign of infestation are powdery deposits in one´s containers. This is
probably insect ****.

One´s main aim should be not to get infested in the first place. The most
common substances used for this purpose are paradichlorbenzene, and
napthalene. These are often referred to as "Moth Crystals", or "Mothballs"
respectively.

Both of these substances only work properly when the containers in which
they are placed are more or less airtight. This is necessary for a certain
"vapour pressure" to develop. This fairly effectively fumigates materials,
and provides an effective deterrent. There is some contention as to the
relative effectiveness of paradichlorbenzene and napthalene, but both do
work Most museums use napthalene to preserve their collections. Putting
these substances loose in drawers, cupboards etc, is only a mild deterrent,
and causes an uneccessarily strong smell, which may upset other family
members, contaminate clothes etc. Constant exposure to the resulting fumes
is also not a good idea. Both materials sublimate. This means they turn from
the solid state, directly into gas. This also means that they have to be
renewed regilarly for ongoing protection.

Both substances are toxic, and are suspected carcinogens, so avoid
uneccessary handling of them. Anything that kills or deters bugs is bound to
be unhealthy, so use some common sense when using such substances.

Some woods and herbs, like cedar, sandalwood, lavender, and one or two
others are said to be effective deterrents. Personally I would not rely on
this too heavily. In this case, the chemicals mentioned are better.

For full fumigation, which exterminates more or less all pests, Methyl
Bromide is normally used, along with a few other nasties. I do not
recommend using chemicals like these in the home, they are extremely
dangerous.

( Veterinary certification is required for export ( and import) of most
things like skins and feathers, and this is usually done with Methyl
Bromide)

Fumigation is usually far more trouble than it is worth for small quantities
of material.


If you want to treat skins and feathers yourself, smoking ( in a smoking
oven, as you would sea-trout or salmon) is an excellent alternative to
chemicals and the like. It seems to work very well indeed on the stuff I
have tried. I don´t think it is an acceptable alternative to fumigation
though.


Most people seem mainly worried about moths, these however are not the only
pests which may attack your fly-dressing materials. Among the most common
are Carpet beetles, feather mites, ants, various termites, and there are a
whole host of others. It may be of mild academic interest to determine which
bugs are presently chomping their way through your expensive and treasured
materials, but it really does not matter much in the final analysis.

The substances mentioned, ( apart from Methyl Bromide), will not kill many
of these pests once they have infected your materials, they simply act as a
deterrent. Most especially the eggs of some pests are notoriously hard to
remove, and killing the adults, or larva is not a lot of use, as the eggs
simply hatch out and you have the whole problem all over again.

If you find anything at all crawling about in your materials, then you must
immediately assume the worst, and act accordingly, as you will otherwise
most likely lose a good proportion, if not all of your materials.

DO NOT DELAY !!!!!! Act immediately.

The most effective way of getting rid of most potential or actual pests is
washing your materials in warm soapy water. This will also improve many
materials with regard to their appearance, and handling qualities.

Unpack all the material, any bags or boxes etc which are infected, should be
discarded. Anything which may not be washed and subjected to the following
procedure, should be discarded, ot at least kept in quarantine, well away
from any other materials, for at least three months. If you can, at least
deep-freeze it for a while. If not place it in an airtight polythene bag,
or container containing moth crystals ( paradichlorbenzene, or Napthalene ).
The bag MUST BE AIRTIGHT, as otherwise the crystals are not able to generate
sufficient vapour pressure to fumigate the materials.

This procedure should also be followed when adding materials to your
collection. Most especially things like roadkill, but even materials bought
from mail order companies, various fly-shops etc, should be very carefully
examined, and treated.

Do not forget to treat your tying threads, wools, flosses, and dubbing.
!!!!! This is often forgotten, and the results can be devastating.

Wooden drawers etc , should be washed out carefully,. and disinfected with
spray type bug-killer. there are several "wide spectrum" bug killers on the
market. It is of course useless to use fly-spray on carpet beetles, they
are immune to it, so make sure you use a substance that actually will kill
the pests you are trying to get rid of. Be careful with such substances,
they are often highly toxic, and may harm you or your family if used
incorrectly.

If you have used such substances on materials, KEEP YOUR FINGERS AWAY FROM
YOUR MOUTH WHEN USING SUCH MATERIALS. Even thorough washing will not
entirely remove some subtances from feathers, fur etc, and the consequences
may be dire.

Wash all material in a bath of lukewarm water with detergent added. Use
dishwashing liquid, like "Fairy", or pure soap. Avoid detergents which "wash
whiter than white", they contain a fair quantity of fluorescent dye ( Which
is what makes "white" shirts etc glow under "black" disco lights). This can
have odd effects on some materials. Swish the capes, and fur materials
around so that they are properly washed. Rinse off thoroughly with copious
anounts of cold water. Spread on clean dry newspaper to dry, be careful if
you use illustrated magazines etc for this, as colours from these may run
and damage your stuff. If in doubt, place clean paper between your materials
and the other papers. Materials should be dried feather, or fur side up.

When completely dry, place the stuff in a microwave one small lot at a
time, and give it 30 seconds at 600 W. Be careful here, just do one cape or
piece of hide at a time, preferably laid on tissue paper over newspaper,
feather side up, to absorb any fat etc which may be melted out. Things like
hare´s ears, starling skins, various other whole skins, may still have quite
a lot of "dried" fat or flesh on them. If you put these in the microwave,
even for a short time, they will stink, the flesh or fat will soften, and
the result will be an awful mess.

Do not place the materials you have just treated back on the pile of stuff
waiting for treatment, place it immediately in clean zip-lock or similar
bags, and deep freeze it. Leave it for three days, allow it to thaw, and
freeze again.

After this you may place the material in either airtight containers with
deterrent crystals added, or in zip lock bags with crystals added. MAKE SURE
THE BAGS ARE SEALED!!!!! This serves the dual purpose of containing the
smell, and preventing ingress of pests.

Some pests may even eat through polythene bags. This has happened to me
twice. In both cases the pests responsible were carpet beetles. I prefer
solid polythene airtight containers. Glass jars, and similar receptacles are
also suitable. Even tin boxes which close properly are OK. Wooden boxes and
similar are more or less useless usually, even though cigar boxes were
traditionally used. The tobacco smell may keep moths away, but it has no
effect on other pests, and may even attract them.

Dubbing materials in open boxes are especially prone to being infested. When
these are not in use, they should also be placed in airtight containers with
deterrent crystals added.

Some dyed materials are not particularly prone to attack by pests, as some
of the dye ingredients are also toxic, and the pests die fairly quickly
after ingesting such stuff. Nevertheless, it is not a good idea to rely on
this, and such materials should be handled, treated and stored just as
carefully as any others.

There is an excellent FAQ with more info on this subject at:
http://www.uky.edu/~agrdanny/flyfish/petti.htm

Many people may live their whole lives without ever experiencing an attack
of pests on their materials. This is no reason to be complacent. If your
materials ever are attacked you will be very sorry indeed, especially if
these are the result of much time and expense. Some may even be
irreplaceable.

I have seen the results of a pest attack on a large box of materials which
was sent by post to a friend. When it arrived,after three days in transit,
the box was full of very healthy looking hairy beetles in a variety of
sizes, ( carpet beetles ), and the sad remains of a fairly magnificent
selection of expensive capes, consisting mainly of stalks, various bits and
pieces, and a lot of beetle ****.

Take the relevant precautions, it is much better to be safe than sorry, even
if such precautions are a nuisance.

One last point. Nowadays a tyers bench is full of all sorts of chemicals and
potions which may be extremely toxic, or otherwise dangerous. Chemicals like
Toluene, Acetone, Amyl Acetate, various Ketones, and a host of other stuff,
are potentially extremely dangerous, and should be handled with extreme
care. Prolonged exposure to some of the fumes may well cause brain damage,
and various other extremely unpleasant symptoms. Here again, use some
common sense, and if you use any of this stuff, then be careful with it. You
have only yourself to blame if something untoward occurs.

Also take extreme care when mixing or thinning such materials. Careless
handling or lack of knowledge in the case of some mixtures may have lethal
results. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN MIXING ONE LIQUID WITH
ANOTHER THEN IT IS BEST NOT TO TRY IT. It is also best not to smoke when
using such stuff.

It behooves everybody to inform themselves of potential dangers before using
such stuff. It is no use complaining afterwards, even assuming that you are
in a position to do so.

There are several reasons for this post, somebody asked about it, another
person was apparently not aware that vapour pressure was necessary for
various crystals to be effective, and the last and most important reason
occurred some time ago at a friend´s house.

He had mixed potassium permanganate crystals with a solution of picric acid,
and added some glycerine ( Don´t ask me why! I have not the slightest idea,
he did mumble something about dyeing some fur before he started, but I was
sitting at his bench in his cellar, and more or less ignored him, as I was
busy tying some flies).

To cut a long story short, he was in the process of adding some napthalene
crystals to the mixture, when he let out a shout, dropped the glass he was
holding, the contents of which immediately burst into flames and began
emitting a most noxious smelling gas. Several buckets of water later ( he
had no fire extinguisher !!!! ), severely charred linoleum, ( which
doubtless added considerably to the smell ), and half choked, we both
emerged from the cellar somewhat relieved, and considerably chastised.

If he had dropped this glass anywhere near the paint, thinners, gas bottles,
and various other stuff stored in his cellar, I fear the outcome would have
been far more serious.

If you feel inclined to carry out experiments of this nature, ( although I
would not advise it without at least a basic knowledge of the substances
involved and their properties ), then do it outside in the fresh air, and
well away from the house.


TL
MC

Here are some noble beasts!

http://www.birds2grow.com/art-avianmites.html

TL
MC

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Very comprehensive, thanks Mike. What do feather mites look like, and if I
happened to have stuck a feather in my tying kit that has mites, will they
propagate onto the other stuff in there, or will they die off from lack of
a
living host?

--riverman
(this may or may not be academic. I'll let you know....)



Feather mites, carpet beetles, moth larvae and a host of other pests feed on
feathers and similar. They do not require a living host, they eat the
compounds in the feather material. If you have such bugs in your materials,
they will damage and destroy them in a very short time, an hour is too long!
The only really sensible thing to do is to discard such materials, and
fumigate everything, but thorough nuking and washing will generally save
most things, if they are worth saving by the time you discover the damage.

you will find a lot of good info here;
http://www.uky.edu/~agrdanny/flyfish/petti.htm



The following may also be of help;

Well, thanks very much for the e-mails. However, it might be a better idea
to post them here, I am sure quite a few people would be interested. That is
after all what the board is for.

To the gent with the infested hare´s ears ( a most unfortunate affliction,
you have my deepest sympathy), as of yet, I have never met a trout who had
any idea at all about the anatomy of small land mammals, although I once
caught a fairly large one with a water shrew in its gut, ( Neomys fodiens,
for the purists).

I am extremely fortunate in being able to obtain whole skins of various
creatures, from quite a few very considerate local hunters I know, and a
few more from quite a few much less considerate drivers on the local main
road, whom I do not know.

This also allows me to obtain winter pelts, summer pelts, and animals in
various stages of growth. Colour and texture variations are massive, and a
great many natural colours may be obtained. I do resort to the dye-pot
occasionally however, but not for hare´s ears and the like.

To be perfectly honest, scraping, pulling, twitching, or even attempting to
cut the hair off a hares ear is a remarkably unrewarding operation, it is
invariably hard, scrappy, and in short supply. Mixing the body hair in a
particular way gives much better results, and is cheaper, easier, and
quicker.

It also presumably significantly reduces the incidence of deaf hares.

Much the same applies to a hare´s mask. A whole skin is a great deal more
useful, although you may of course use the mask as well if you wish.

Quality is a very difficult thing to describe in conjunction with pelts, or
"bits" like these. You have to see them and handle them, and preferably you
should get to know someone who knows what to look for. This is of course
extremely difficult I know. But you have no real option.

Buying various packets of stuff from mail order companies, or even local
tackle shops, in order to obtain a specific dubbing mix, will often result
in you being the proud possesor of a relatively large number of packets each
containing a meagre quantity of more or less unsuitable hair, of the wrong
colour and texture, and a huge quantity of extremely tatty shrivelled ears
and masks in various stages of decay, and occasionally even infested with
various interesting insects, until you find what you require.

One may of course simply work on the theory I evinced above, that trout do
not know anything much about hares, or their various appendages, and simply
use whatever you are able to obtain.

Should your ears be infested, then the best remedy is to throw them away.
You might however, assuming you are suffering from a severe dearth of ears,
try washing them in warm soapy water, allowing them to dry thoroughly, and
then placing them in the freezer for a few days.

This will usually get rid of practically all pests. Mark the bags carefully,
so you know what is in them! ( don´t put them next to the fish fingers by
the way,if you wish to avoid your girlfriends, wifes, partners, ire). Frozen
hare´s ears look much like a lot of other frozen stuff, but they are
absolutely disgusting when fried.

After you remove them from the freezer, place them in zip-lock bags or
airtigtht containers, containing moth crystals or similar.

DO NOT PUT THINGS LIKE HARES EARS AND MASKS IN THE MICROWAVE. The stink is
abominable, and the cooked hair is bloody useless anyway.

There is too much flesh still attached to such things usually, it may look
dry and harmless, but if you microwave it, you will be treated to at least
an inkling of what biochemical warfare means. It will of course kill the
pests you mention, but you wont be able to do much with the resulting
stinking mess.

TL
MC

Feathers are composed of about 91% protein, 8% water, and 1% lipids. The
type of protein in feathers is called keratin, a sulphurous, fibrous
protein. Fur and hair is similar in construction.

pH is an arbitrary measurement of acidity and alkalinity. Correct pH
environment is absolutely crucial to the preservation of feathers. Acidic
(pH 6 or lower) environments will cause the chemical breakdown of the
keratin, leading to weakening of the feather. Storing your feathers in
wooden boxes or next to paper exposes them to an acidic environment. The
rate of damage will increase as temperature and relative humidity increase.
So, a cool dry place, and no wood or paper in the packaging.

Alkalis (pH 8 or higher) can also cause feathers to break down. Alkali will
have a greater effect on the keratin structure than acids, which are fairly
specific, as they only break down the amino acid tryptophan. Alkalis are
found in many household cleansers, such as soaps and laundry detergents. If
you wash your feathers, then rinse them off in very copious quantities of
water, before drying and storing.

One common cause of damage is colour fading from exposure to light. Although
not as obvious, light may also cause other types of damage. As the energy
contained in light strikes your feathers, it will begin to break molecular
bonds. The breaking of these bonds results in color fading and structural
change, yellowing, and embrittlement of the feathers. If exposed to direct,
intense light, damage occurs very quickly and is immediately obvious. Just
as dangerous is exposure to moderate light levels over extended periods of
time. Light damage is cumulative, and will slowly build up over time.
Although your feathers may have been stored in dim light conditions, in time
the regular exposure to even low light levels will add to its gradual
deterioration.

Usually the first indication of damage is a littering of small pieces of
broken feather barbs in the bottom of the case or box. By then, it is too
late to salvage or repair the feather. (This is easily distiguishale from
beetle ****, and similar insect excreta). So store your feathers in a dark
place. Avoid buying capes and other feathers form display windows subject to
bright sunshine! Even top class capes will degrade very quickly indeed in
strong sunlight, and be more or less useless for tying flies. Quills split,
barbs break, etc etc. Apparently, not many tiers ( and pracically no tackle
shops!!!) are aware of this.

One may also wish to "bleach" or otherwise alter feathers by exposure to
light. Green peacock herl turns bronze when exposed to sunlight. ( I mention
this, as I have seen people trying to buy bronze peacock herl in shops, and
being told that it is "Difficult to obtain"). But if you overdo it, the
quill will split when being tied in. Its structure is materially altered.

Dyed feathers contain the dyes used to colour them of course, and may behave
oddly when exposed to light, various chemical fumes etc etc. This is rarely
desirable.

Various feather colours are dependent on numerous factors, far too many to
list here, ( If anybody is really interested, I do have a list!) But there
are any number of things which will have adverse effects on them.

These are the normal museum standards for the storage of feathers;
Minimal handling and dust protection are essential. The following are
tolerances for other environmental variables.
Temperatu 60 degrees F to 75 degrees F
Humidity: 45% to 55%
pH: 6.5 to 7.5
Visible light: 50 lux or less (the amount of light in a dim room)
Ultraviolet light: 75 microwatts per lumen or less


Absolute devastation of feathers by insect infestation is quite common.
Because keratin contains sulphur, it is a particular delicacy for some types
of insects. Clothes moths ( Adults have no functional mouth and cannot eat
the feathers. It is normally the larvae, identifiable by the cases they
spin, which cause the damage), and dermestid beetles ( "Carpet" beetles),
which are small hairy beetles, are especially fond of materials which
contain keratin. Feather mites, and a whole variety of other creatures will
also readily infest feathers and fur, especially if it is still on the skin.

A sure sign of infestation are powdery deposits in one´s containers. This is
probably insect ****.

One´s main aim should be not to get infested in the first place. The most
common substances used for this purpose are paradichlorbenzene, and
napthalene. These are often referred to as "Moth Crystals", or "Mothballs"
respectively.

Both of these substances only work properly when the containers in which
they are placed are more or less airtight. This is necessary for a certain
"vapour pressure" to develop. This fairly effectively fumigates materials,
and provides an effective deterrent. There is some contention as to the
relative effectiveness of paradichlorbenzene and napthalene, but both do
work Most museums use napthalene to preserve their collections. Putting
these substances loose in drawers, cupboards etc, is only a mild deterrent,
and causes an uneccessarily strong smell, which may upset other family
members, contaminate clothes etc. Constant exposure to the resulting fumes
is also not a good idea. Both materials sublimate. This means they turn from
the solid state, directly into gas. This also means that they have to be
renewed regilarly for ongoing protection.

Both substances are toxic, and are suspected carcinogens, so avoid
uneccessary handling of them. Anything that kills or deters bugs is bound to
be unhealthy, so use some common sense when using such substances.

Some woods and herbs, like cedar, sandalwood, lavender, and one or two
others are said to be effective deterrents. Personally I would not rely on
this too heavily. In this case, the chemicals mentioned are better.

For full fumigation, which exterminates more or less all pests, Methyl
Bromide is normally used, along with a few other nasties. I do not
recommend using chemicals like these in the home, they are extremely
dangerous.

( Veterinary certification is required for export ( and import) of most
things like skins and feathers, and this is usually done with Methyl
Bromide)

Fumigation is usually far more trouble than it is worth for small quantities
of material.


If you want to treat skins and feathers yourself, smoking ( in a smoking
oven, as you would sea-trout or salmon) is an excellent alternative to
chemicals and the like. It seems to work very well indeed on the stuff I
have tried. I don´t think it is an acceptable alternative to fumigation
though.


Most people seem mainly worried about moths, these however are not the only
pests which may attack your fly-dressing materials. Among the most common
are Carpet beetles, feather mites, ants, various termites, and there are a
whole host of others. It may be of mild academic interest to determine which
bugs are presently chomping their way through your expensive and treasured
materials, but it really does not matter much in the final analysis.

The substances mentioned, ( apart from Methyl Bromide), will not kill many
of these pests once they have infected your materials, they simply act as a
deterrent. Most especially the eggs of some pests are notoriously hard to
remove, and killing the adults, or larva is not a lot of use, as the eggs
simply hatch out and you have the whole problem all over again.

If you find anything at all crawling about in your materials, then you must
immediately assume the worst, and act accordingly, as you will otherwise
most likely lose a good proportion, if not all of your materials.

DO NOT DELAY !!!!!! Act immediately.

The most effective way of getting rid of most potential or actual pests is
washing your materials in warm soapy water. This will also improve many
materials with regard to their appearance, and handling qualities.

Unpack all the material, any bags or boxes etc which are infected, should be
discarded. Anything which may not be washed and subjected to the following
procedure, should be discarded, ot at least kept in quarantine, well away
from any other materials, for at least three months. If you can, at least
deep-freeze it for a while. If not place it in an airtight polythene bag,
or container containing moth crystals ( paradichlorbenzene, or Napthalene ).
The bag MUST BE AIRTIGHT, as otherwise the crystals are not able to generate
sufficient vapour pressure to fumigate the materials.

This procedure should also be followed when adding materials to your
collection. Most especially things like roadkill, but even materials bought
from mail order companies, various fly-shops etc, should be very carefully
examined, and treated.

Do not forget to treat your tying threads, wools, flosses, and dubbing.
!!!!! This is often forgotten, and the results can be devastating.

Wooden drawers etc , should be washed out carefully,. and disinfected with
spray type bug-killer. there are several "wide spectrum" bug killers on the
market. It is of course useless to use fly-spray on carpet beetles, they
are immune to it, so make sure you use a substance that actually will kill
the pests you are trying to get rid of. Be careful with such substances,
they are often highly toxic, and may harm you or your family if used
incorrectly.

If you have used such substances on materials, KEEP YOUR FINGERS AWAY FROM
YOUR MOUTH WHEN USING SUCH MATERIALS. Even thorough washing will not
entirely remove some subtances from feathers, fur etc, and the consequences
may be dire.

Wash all material in a bath of lukewarm water with detergent added. Use
dishwashing liquid, like "Fairy", or pure soap. Avoid detergents which "wash
whiter than white", they contain a fair quantity of fluorescent dye ( Which
is what makes "white" shirts etc glow under "black" disco lights). This can
have odd effects on some materials. Swish the capes, and fur materials
around so that they are properly washed. Rinse off thoroughly with copious
anounts of cold water. Spread on clean dry newspaper to dry, be careful if
you use illustrated magazines etc for this, as colours from these may run
and damage your stuff. If in doubt, place clean paper between your materials
and the other papers. Materials should be dried feather, or fur side up.

When completely dry, place the stuff in a microwave one small lot at a
time, and give it 30 seconds at 600 W. Be careful here, just do one cape or
piece of hide at a time, preferably laid on tissue paper over newspaper,
feather side up, to absorb any fat etc which may be melted out. Things like
hare´s ears, starling skins, various other whole skins, may still have quite
a lot of "dried" fat or flesh on them. If you put these in the microwave,
even for a short time, they will stink, the flesh or fat will soften, and
the result will be an awful mess.

Do not place the materials you have just treated back on the pile of stuff
waiting for treatment, place it immediately in clean zip-lock or similar
bags, and deep freeze it. Leave it for three days, allow it to thaw, and
freeze again.

After this you may place the material in either airtight containers with
deterrent crystals added, or in zip lock bags with crystals added. MAKE SURE
THE BAGS ARE SEALED!!!!! This serves the dual purpose of containing the
smell, and preventing ingress of pests.

Some pests may even eat through polythene bags. This has happened to me
twice. In both cases the pests responsible were carpet beetles. I prefer
solid polythene airtight containers. Glass jars, and similar receptacles are
also suitable. Even tin boxes which close properly are OK. Wooden boxes and
similar are more or less useless usually, even though cigar boxes were
traditionally used. The tobacco smell may keep moths away, but it has no
effect on other pests, and may even attract them.

Dubbing materials in open boxes are especially prone to being infested. When
these are not in use, they should also be placed in airtight containers with
deterrent crystals added.

Some dyed materials are not particularly prone to attack by pests, as some
of the dye ingredients are also toxic, and the pests die fairly quickly
after ingesting such stuff. Nevertheless, it is not a good idea to rely on
this, and such materials should be handled, treated and stored just as
carefully as any others.

There is an excellent FAQ with more info on this subject at:
http://www.uky.edu/~agrdanny/flyfish/petti.htm

Many people may live their whole lives without ever experiencing an attack
of pests on their materials. This is no reason to be complacent. If your
materials ever are attacked you will be very sorry indeed, especially if
these are the result of much time and expense. Some may even be
irreplaceable.

I have seen the results of a pest attack on a large box of materials which
was sent by post to a friend. When it arrived,after three days in transit,
the box was full of very healthy looking hairy beetles in a variety of
sizes, ( carpet beetles ), and the sad remains of a fairly magnificent
selection of expensive capes, consisting mainly of stalks, various bits and
pieces, and a lot of beetle ****.

Take the relevant precautions, it is much better to be safe than sorry, even
if such precautions are a nuisance.

One last point. Nowadays a tyers bench is full of all sorts of chemicals and
potions which may be extremely toxic, or otherwise dangerous. Chemicals like
Toluene, Acetone, Amyl Acetate, various Ketones, and a host of other stuff,
are potentially extremely dangerous, and should be handled with extreme
care. Prolonged exposure to some of the fumes may well cause brain damage,
and various other extremely unpleasant symptoms. Here again, use some
common sense, and if you use any of this stuff, then be careful with it. You
have only yourself to blame if something untoward occurs.

Also take extreme care when mixing or thinning such materials. Careless
handling or lack of knowledge in the case of some mixtures may have lethal
results. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN MIXING ONE LIQUID WITH
ANOTHER THEN IT IS BEST NOT TO TRY IT. It is also best not to smoke when
using such stuff.

It behooves everybody to inform themselves of potential dangers before using
such stuff. It is no use complaining afterwards, even assuming that you are
in a position to do so.

There are several reasons for this post, somebody asked about it, another
person was apparently not aware that vapour pressure was necessary for
various crystals to be effective, and the last and most important reason
occurred some time ago at a friend´s house.

He had mixed potassium permanganate crystals with a solution of picric acid,
and added some glycerine ( Don´t ask me why! I have not the slightest idea,
he did mumble something about dyeing some fur before he started, but I was
sitting at his bench in his cellar, and more or less ignored him, as I was
busy tying some flies).

To cut a long story short, he was in the process of adding some napthalene
crystals to the mixture, when he let out a shout, dropped the glass he was
holding, the contents of which immediately burst into flames and began
emitting a most noxious smelling gas. Several buckets of water later ( he
had no fire extinguisher !!!! ), severely charred linoleum, ( which
doubtless added considerably to the smell ), and half choked, we both
emerged from the cellar somewhat relieved, and considerably chastised.

If he had dropped this glass anywhere near the paint, thinners, gas bottles,
and various other stuff stored in his cellar, I fear the outcome would have
been far more serious.

If you feel inclined to carry out experiments of this nature, ( although I
would not advise it without at least a basic knowledge of the substances
involved and their properties ), then do it outside in the fresh air, and
well away from the house.


TL
MC

Here are some noble beasts!

http://www.birds2grow.com/art-avianmites.html

TL
MC

take note nuke for only 30 sec roasted possumhide sure does stink

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
. The feathers were all there, all
completely fine, but I had no idea how to harvest them from the rotting,
bug
infected meat. How do people do it?

--riverman



Feathers may be plucked, washed and dried, and then placed in appropriate
containers and labelled as required. Ensure there is no meat adhering to
the quills, if necessary, cut the base of the quills off. Often feathers
will be infested with feather mites, ( among other things). "nuking" ( 30
seconds, 600 watt, Microwave, and then freezing) after three days, thaw
out,
wash and allow to dry thoroughly, will get rid of such pests.


Very comprehensive, thanks Mike. What do feather mites look like, and if I
happened to have stuck a feather in my tying kit that has mites, will they
propagate onto the other stuff in there, or will they die off from lack of
a living host?

--riverman
(this may or may not be academic. I'll let you know....)

take note nuke for only 30 sec roasted possumhide sure does stink

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
. The feathers were all there, all
completely fine, but I had no idea how to harvest them from the rotting,
bug
infected meat. How do people do it?

--riverman



Feathers may be plucked, washed and dried, and then placed in appropriate
containers and labelled as required. Ensure there is no meat adhering to
the quills, if necessary, cut the base of the quills off. Often feathers
will be infested with feather mites, ( among other things). "nuking" ( 30
seconds, 600 watt, Microwave, and then freezing) after three days, thaw
out,
wash and allow to dry thoroughly, will get rid of such pests.


Very comprehensive, thanks Mike. What do feather mites look like, and if I
happened to have stuck a feather in my tying kit that has mites, will they
propagate onto the other stuff in there, or will they die off from lack of
a living host?

--riverman
(this may or may not be academic. I'll let you know....)

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
. The feathers were all there, all
completely fine, but I had no idea how to harvest them from the rotting,
bug
infected meat. How do people do it?

--riverman



Feathers may be plucked, washed and dried, and then placed in appropriate
containers and labelled as required. Ensure there is no meat adhering to
the quills, if necessary, cut the base of the quills off. Often feathers
will be infested with feather mites, ( among other things). "nuking" ( 30
seconds, 600 watt, Microwave, and then freezing) after three days, thaw
out,
wash and allow to dry thoroughly, will get rid of such pests.


Very comprehensive, thanks Mike. What do feather mites look like, and if I
happened to have stuck a feather in my tying kit that has mites, will they
propagate onto the other stuff in there, or will they die off from lack of a
living host?

--riverman
(this may or may not be academic. I'll let you know....)