Question about loop leaders?

Tom Nakashima writes:

The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off.
I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with
loop leaders

Some folks insist that a loop connection can produce a hinge effect when
casting. I have used the mesh "Chinese finger trap" connectors Orvis likes so
much, and loops made from mono that has been nail knotted to the fly line. I
have never experienced this "hinge effect", however, I can understand how it
got started. If the finger trap mesh thingy is installed improperly, it could
hinge when the line is not forced all the way to the loops end before securing
it.

There are other options for connecting fly line to leader. Eagle make leader
connectors which are small plastic thingies where the fly line is passed
through and a simply knot made to hold it from slipping out. The leader is
also passed through the opposite end of the leader link and a simply knot holds
it in place. Lots of folks on roff use this method.

Still another method is a recent proprietary release from Sci Anglers. You buy
a kit with a plastic tool that installs a plastic thingy to the end of your fly
line. The kit also allows you to attach a special proprietary leader sold only
by Sci Anglers that attaches to the thingy. When you are through with that
leader, you insert another thingy (there are five in the kit) and attach
another leader. OR, you could tie a small perfection loop in the butt end of
the orginal leader and go back to loop to loop.

I've tried all the above methods but prefer the nail knot with a perfection
loop at the other end of the short piece of mono.

ymmv, of course.

Dave

I should have added:

I have noticed no difference in presentation with any of the methods I
mentioned.

Dave LaCourse writes:

Still another method is a recent proprietary release from Sci Anglers.

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I tried them and found them workable. But since right now my fishing is
limited to sal****er in the periods between storms, and since they don't
make them in sizes for larger lines, I will stick to my furled leaders with
tippets looped on.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
When the dawn came up like thunder

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.



Peter

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On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...

TC,
R



Peter

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On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman