Palmering

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:05:05 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

Hey Jarmo;
Yep, thats what I was leading myself into also. I think thats how MC
showed
me to do it in Denmark, also, but I haven't tied any wooly buggers in a
while and forgot! I can see three distinct advantages to it:
1) the hackle lies back the way it's supposed to
2) since the longer hairs are up near the head, the shape of the fly is
more
like a bait fish
3) the windings over the top lock down the palmered hackle so that it
won't
unwind if some fish bites it once too often.

Seeing as how its not a floating fly, the extra trips up the shaft of the
fly with the thread don't cause any negative effect on the weight, either.

I think I might just reverse palmer and not even care about why my
straight
palmers don't curl right.

I palmer my wooly buggers that way for durability. As to 2), if you don't
reverse palmer just tie the tip of the hackle in at the hook bend instead
of
the butt.

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

--riverman

riverman wrote:

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

--riverman



That's not bad at all for a first humpy. The humpy is a notorious
difficult fly to tie right, the choice and amount of the materials is
quite critical. I tied a couple in a tying class once, and decided I
didn't really need them :-).

--
Herman

riverman wrote:

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

FWIW, I tie the hackle in by the tip as well. I tie it slightly
forward of the tail and take a wrap or two of the chenille behind it
before wrappping the chenille forward.

Another thing you could try would be to strip the hackles off one
side of the feather and tie it in that way. It makes for a less-dense
hackle and it's much easier to control that way, IMHO.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

Humpies are a true PIA to tie. But, Harry Mason has the tips you
need to know for getting the tail/shellback/wing proportions right:
http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/humpy/


Chuck Vance (whose humpies look like hairy Quasimodos)

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
Humpies are a true PIA to tie. But, Harry Mason has the tips you need
to know for getting the tail/shellback/wing proportions right:
http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/humpy/

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie on the
tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest tightening of the
thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed together like his do,
they would fall off of the fly!

I'm going to practice some more, and if I can't get it, I'm gonna start
tying streaking caddises!

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
Humpies are a true PIA to tie. But, Harry Mason has the tips you
need
to know for getting the tail/shellback/wing proportions right:
http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/humpy/

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie on
the
tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest tightening of the
thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed together like his do,
they would fall off of the fly!

I'm going to practice some more, and if I can't get it, I'm gonna start
tying streaking caddises!

--riverman


You need the right hair for such flies. The (non-flaring, because
non-compressing) tips are used for the tail.

QUOTE

5. Selecting hair is a matter of deciding what you are going to do with the
hair. You have two basic operations with deer or elk hair -- wings or tails
and spinning. The best hair for wings and tails on flies like humpies,
Wulffs, compara duns, etc is located (a strip about a foot wide) on the
animal along the back bone, down over the shoulder, and down over the rump.
The best hair for flaring or spinning is located on the rib and belly of the
animal. Seldom to we get the opportunity to select hair from a complete
hide. Usually we are searching through a group of 3"x5" plastic bags in a
fly shop hoping we will get usable hair and later finding the hair does not
fill our needs. Here's what you look for when selecting hair that is already
packaged. The hair fibers located near the back bone of the animal has a
dark gray band in the middle of each -- the hair fiber is colored starting
with a dark point on the tip followed by a tan (deer) or cream (elk) section
directly below the dark tip. From there the hair fiber enters a dark gray
area which eventually fades to a light gray area where the hair fiber joins
the animal's hide. For wings and tail you need hair the is at least 50% dark
grey in the middle of the hair. On the other hand if you are spinning hair
you want hair fibers whose middle section is mostly light grey in color.
REMEMBER -- dark gray hair, wings & tails --- light gray hair, spinning or
flaring. Back to the index.

UNQUOTE

Courtesy of http://www.btsflyfishing.com/Tips_Tricks/TT.htm

There is a lot more info on the web on selecting hair etc, a google search
will turn up a lot of stuff. It is more or less impossible to tie such
flies correctly with the wrong materials, as they simply will not function
properly.

TL
MC

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

You need the right hair for such flies. The (non-flaring, because
non-compressing) tips are used for the tail.

QUOTE

5. Selecting hair is a matter of deciding what you are going to do with
the
hair. You have two basic operations with deer or elk hair -- wings or
tails
and spinning. The best hair for wings and tails on flies like humpies,
Wulffs, compara duns, etc is located (a strip about a foot wide) on the
animal along the back bone, down over the shoulder, and down over the
rump.
The best hair for flaring or spinning is located on the rib and belly of
the
animal. Seldom to we get the opportunity to select hair from a complete
hide. Usually we are searching through a group of 3"x5" plastic bags in a
fly shop hoping we will get usable hair and later finding the hair does
not
fill our needs. Here's what you look for when selecting hair that is
already
packaged. The hair fibers located near the back bone of the animal has a
dark gray band in the middle of each -- the hair fiber is colored starting
with a dark point on the tip followed by a tan (deer) or cream (elk)
section
directly below the dark tip. From there the hair fiber enters a dark gray
area which eventually fades to a light gray area where the hair fiber
joins
the animal's hide. For wings and tail you need hair the is at least 50%
dark
grey in the middle of the hair. On the other hand if you are spinning hair
you want hair fibers whose middle section is mostly light grey in color.
REMEMBER -- dark gray hair, wings & tails --- light gray hair, spinning or
flaring. Back to the index.

UNQUOTE

Courtesy of http://www.btsflyfishing.com/Tips_Tricks/TT.htm



Thanks for that link and the quote: its come up here several times in the
past few years and I remembered it was out there, but forgot where.
Actually, I'm not using deer hair, so I have to be more educated in my
methods: I'm using some African critter that has hollow fiber hair like a
deer, but its a bit harder to work with. However, it sure flares easily, so
I think I really WILL stop trying to make humpies and instead just learn to
spin this. It might be rather special for that.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message
...

Thanks for that link and the quote: its come up here several times in the
past few years and I remembered it was out there, but forgot where.
Actually, I'm not using deer hair, so I have to be more educated in my
methods: I'm using some African critter that has hollow fiber hair like a
deer, but its a bit harder to work with. However, it sure flares easily,
so
I think I really WILL stop trying to make humpies and instead just learn
to
spin this. It might be rather special for that.

--riverman



It is relatively easy to test the properties of various hair etc. Simply
bind some on a bare hook, and see what happens. Hair which flares, does so
because it is compressible, this often means that it is also buoyant.

If you want to tie "humpies" with such stuff, then use a hackle bunch or
similar for the tail ( or some other hair, antelope, calf, zebra, etc etc),
and then tie in a bunch of your flaring hair at the bend with the tips
pointing forwards. Wrap the body, tying down the tips, and then bring the
hair over, and tie it down. Apply your wings and hackles as usual, and that
was it. Looks and works perfectly well, but overcomes several problems;
sizing the hair, and getting the right type.

If you want to flare( spin) hair, then do it on a blank hook. Only tie down
after applying each bunch. Push each bunch back tightly to pack it ( finger
and thumbnail works for me), take a turn ( or a half hitch) to secure, ( a
drop of varnish after each clump makes such flies nearly bombproof)and apply
the next bunch. Do not try to trim any hair, until the last bunch has been
applied.

TL
MC

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

If you want to tie "humpies" with such stuff, then use a hackle bunch or
similar for the tail ( or some other hair, antelope, calf, zebra, etc
etc),
and then tie in a bunch of your flaring hair at the bend with the tips
pointing forwards. Wrap the body, tying down the tips, and then bring the
hair over, and tie it down.

If I'm reading this right, you're suggesting tying the wing/back hairs with
the butt ends as the exposed ends? Won't that screw up the wings? I use the
tips of the hump hairs as the wings, then tie on some hackle.

--rm

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

If you want to tie "humpies" with such stuff, then use a hackle bunch or
similar for the tail ( or some other hair, antelope, calf, zebra, etc
etc),
and then tie in a bunch of your flaring hair at the bend with the tips
pointing forwards. Wrap the body, tying down the tips, and then bring the
hair over, and tie it down.

If I'm reading this right, you're suggesting tying the wing/back hairs with
the butt ends as the exposed ends? Won't that screw up the wings? I use the
tips of the hump hairs as the wings, then tie on some hackle.

--rm

"riverman" wrote in message
...

Thanks for that link and the quote: its come up here several times in the
past few years and I remembered it was out there, but forgot where.
Actually, I'm not using deer hair, so I have to be more educated in my
methods: I'm using some African critter that has hollow fiber hair like a
deer, but its a bit harder to work with. However, it sure flares easily,
so
I think I really WILL stop trying to make humpies and instead just learn
to
spin this. It might be rather special for that.

--riverman



It is relatively easy to test the properties of various hair etc. Simply
bind some on a bare hook, and see what happens. Hair which flares, does so
because it is compressible, this often means that it is also buoyant.

If you want to tie "humpies" with such stuff, then use a hackle bunch or
similar for the tail ( or some other hair, antelope, calf, zebra, etc etc),
and then tie in a bunch of your flaring hair at the bend with the tips
pointing forwards. Wrap the body, tying down the tips, and then bring the
hair over, and tie it down. Apply your wings and hackles as usual, and that
was it. Looks and works perfectly well, but overcomes several problems;
sizing the hair, and getting the right type.

If you want to flare( spin) hair, then do it on a blank hook. Only tie down
after applying each bunch. Push each bunch back tightly to pack it ( finger
and thumbnail works for me), take a turn ( or a half hitch) to secure, ( a
drop of varnish after each clump makes such flies nearly bombproof)and apply
the next bunch. Do not try to trim any hair, until the last bunch has been
applied.

TL
MC