Question about loop leaders?

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
riverman wrote:

... For them who know the Juan, catching footballs there is apparently
trivial, as folks tell tales of hundreds of fish a day. I saw some
absolute newbies under the tutelage of a guide hauling out big fish with
every drift. It was humilating, but then again, what did *they* learn,
except how to catch fish on the Juan?

Why would other people catching fish humiliate YOU ?

Well, it humiliated me because I was trying so damn hard and not getting any
fish!! And these guys were definately newbies. It was sour grapes.

However, not knowing that you needed submicroscopic nymphs, where the
'hot spots' were, what the local technique was, or where the 'better'
fish were merely meant that I had a great day fishing and figuring it out
for myself, which is what I like best about fishing. Personally, I hate
things that become 'popular' because all sorts of stupid artificial rules
start coming in. Suddenly, certain gear is de rigeur, other gear is
'square' or 'old fashioned'. Even in the non fishing world, I hate that
****. Gotta have the right shoes, the right haircut, the right car, gotta
live in the right neighborhood. Hey, its still rock-and-roll to me, I'd
rather live my own life.

Well, that's a nice enough rant but I think you're conflating totally
different things. I like to hire a guide the first time I visit new
waters, especially if I'm going to be there for a few days. And even
if I don't hire a guide I'll visit a local flyshop to buy a few flies
and chat up the locals trying to discover what's what. Now how that
gets conflated with having to have an Eddie Bauer Edition Ford Explorer
escapes me.


OK, you're right on that. I also would like to hire a guide to find out
what's what, but I don't want to hear any stuff about 'your reels not
expensive enough' or 'you need better gear to catch the bigger fish' (which
is what this guide was telling these guys) or 'this is the only way to do
it, and I invented it' (which is also what he was telling them). Thats what
happens in arenas that are overpopulated, from ski resorts to fishing holes.
There's some info thats pertinent and useful, and some that's just opinion
and attitude because someone's gotta be better than someone else.
Personally, I like to fish without a guide for awhile until I've got some
ideas of my own, then use the guide to do exactly that: to guide me to the
next step, to help me improve where I can't do it on my own.

--riverman

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
riverman wrote:

... For them who know the Juan, catching footballs there is apparently
trivial, as folks tell tales of hundreds of fish a day. I saw some
absolute newbies under the tutelage of a guide hauling out big fish with
every drift. It was humilating, but then again, what did *they* learn,
except how to catch fish on the Juan?

Why would other people catching fish humiliate YOU ?

Well, it humiliated me because I was trying so damn hard and not getting any
fish!! And these guys were definately newbies. It was sour grapes.

However, not knowing that you needed submicroscopic nymphs, where the
'hot spots' were, what the local technique was, or where the 'better'
fish were merely meant that I had a great day fishing and figuring it out
for myself, which is what I like best about fishing. Personally, I hate
things that become 'popular' because all sorts of stupid artificial rules
start coming in. Suddenly, certain gear is de rigeur, other gear is
'square' or 'old fashioned'. Even in the non fishing world, I hate that
****. Gotta have the right shoes, the right haircut, the right car, gotta
live in the right neighborhood. Hey, its still rock-and-roll to me, I'd
rather live my own life.

Well, that's a nice enough rant but I think you're conflating totally
different things. I like to hire a guide the first time I visit new
waters, especially if I'm going to be there for a few days. And even
if I don't hire a guide I'll visit a local flyshop to buy a few flies
and chat up the locals trying to discover what's what. Now how that
gets conflated with having to have an Eddie Bauer Edition Ford Explorer
escapes me.


OK, you're right on that. I also would like to hire a guide to find out
what's what, but I don't want to hear any stuff about 'your reels not
expensive enough' or 'you need better gear to catch the bigger fish' (which
is what this guide was telling these guys) or 'this is the only way to do
it, and I invented it' (which is also what he was telling them). Thats what
happens in arenas that are overpopulated, from ski resorts to fishing holes.
There's some info thats pertinent and useful, and some that's just opinion
and attitude because someone's gotta be better than someone else.
Personally, I like to fish without a guide for awhile until I've got some
ideas of my own, then use the guide to do exactly that: to guide me to the
next step, to help me improve where I can't do it on my own.

--riverman

SEE! SEE! I tried to tell you - loops are BIG trouble!

TC,
R

SEE! SEE! I tried to tell you - loops are BIG trouble!

TC,
R

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:53:18 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

OK, you're right on that. I also would like to hire a guide to find out
what's what, but I don't want to hear any stuff about 'your reels not
expensive enough' or 'you need better gear to catch the bigger fish' (which
is what this guide was telling these guys) or 'this is the only way to do
it, and I invented it' (which is also what he was telling them).

That was Andy Kim, right? I don't think he's the 'typical' SJ guide. g
--
Charlie...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:53:18 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

OK, you're right on that. I also would like to hire a guide to find out
what's what, but I don't want to hear any stuff about 'your reels not
expensive enough' or 'you need better gear to catch the bigger fish' (which
is what this guide was telling these guys) or 'this is the only way to do
it, and I invented it' (which is also what he was telling them).

That was Andy Kim, right? I don't think he's the 'typical' SJ guide. g
--
Charlie...

Jon writes:

Hook a fish deep
in the main channel, and they'll fight.

Damn straight!

I don't remember anyone saying that 100s of fish were caught a day. I can't
totally remember, but 10 seems more realistic.

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:53:18 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

OK, you're right on that. I also would like to hire a guide to find out
what's what, but I don't want to hear any stuff about 'your reels not
expensive enough' or 'you need better gear to catch the bigger fish'
(which
is what this guide was telling these guys) or 'this is the only way to do
it, and I invented it' (which is also what he was telling them).

That was Andy Kim, right? I don't think he's the 'typical' SJ guide. g

Yeah, I was blanking on his name. That store owner sure enjoyed telling us
about how Andy got his lights punched out by those Texans. g

--riverman

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:53:18 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

OK, you're right on that. I also would like to hire a guide to find out
what's what, but I don't want to hear any stuff about 'your reels not
expensive enough' or 'you need better gear to catch the bigger fish'
(which
is what this guide was telling these guys) or 'this is the only way to do
it, and I invented it' (which is also what he was telling them).

That was Andy Kim, right? I don't think he's the 'typical' SJ guide. g

Yeah, I was blanking on his name. That store owner sure enjoyed telling us
about how Andy got his lights punched out by those Texans. g

--riverman

"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message
...
riverman wrote:

you don't. For them who know the Juan, catching footballs there is
apparently trivial, as folks tell tales of hundreds of fish a day. I saw

Don't believe it.

Anyway, I doubt that I will ever fish the San Juan again. Too much 'local

If your stateside in January, I'd recommend the clave. As Willi said,
the circus has left town for the most part, and there's plenty of
places on the river that aren't like the Kiddie Hole. Hook a fish deep
in the main channel, and they'll fight.

Jon.

I won't be in the Homeland this January, but I'll recant my 'never again'
statement. I'd go in a hearbeat to fish with any of you guys, and I'd even
go if I really needed a 'fix' and there wasn't anything closer to home
available. But it'd never be home water; its just not the type of fishing I
like. In fact, its exactly why I stopped commercial raft guiding: I
preferred the rule-less solitude of wilderness floating.

--riverman