Palmering

"riverman" wrote in
:

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie
on the tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest
tightening of the thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed
together like his do, they would fall off of the fly!


Try starting w/ looser wraps at the back of the tail, and tightening up as
you move toward the head when you tie down the tail. There are some cases
where "tight as you can get without breaking the thread" is the wrong way
to go.

Scott

"riverman" wrote in
:

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie
on the tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest
tightening of the thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed
together like his do, they would fall off of the fly!


Try starting w/ looser wraps at the back of the tail, and tightening up as
you move toward the head when you tie down the tail. There are some cases
where "tight as you can get without breaking the thread" is the wrong way
to go.

Scott

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

You need the right hair for such flies. The (non-flaring, because
non-compressing) tips are used for the tail.

QUOTE

5. Selecting hair is a matter of deciding what you are going to do with
the
hair. You have two basic operations with deer or elk hair -- wings or
tails
and spinning. The best hair for wings and tails on flies like humpies,
Wulffs, compara duns, etc is located (a strip about a foot wide) on the
animal along the back bone, down over the shoulder, and down over the
rump.
The best hair for flaring or spinning is located on the rib and belly of
the
animal. Seldom to we get the opportunity to select hair from a complete
hide. Usually we are searching through a group of 3"x5" plastic bags in a
fly shop hoping we will get usable hair and later finding the hair does
not
fill our needs. Here's what you look for when selecting hair that is
already
packaged. The hair fibers located near the back bone of the animal has a
dark gray band in the middle of each -- the hair fiber is colored starting
with a dark point on the tip followed by a tan (deer) or cream (elk)
section
directly below the dark tip. From there the hair fiber enters a dark gray
area which eventually fades to a light gray area where the hair fiber
joins
the animal's hide. For wings and tail you need hair the is at least 50%
dark
grey in the middle of the hair. On the other hand if you are spinning hair
you want hair fibers whose middle section is mostly light grey in color.
REMEMBER -- dark gray hair, wings & tails --- light gray hair, spinning or
flaring. Back to the index.

UNQUOTE

Courtesy of http://www.btsflyfishing.com/Tips_Tricks/TT.htm



Thanks for that link and the quote: its come up here several times in the
past few years and I remembered it was out there, but forgot where.
Actually, I'm not using deer hair, so I have to be more educated in my
methods: I'm using some African critter that has hollow fiber hair like a
deer, but its a bit harder to work with. However, it sure flares easily, so
I think I really WILL stop trying to make humpies and instead just learn to
spin this. It might be rather special for that.

--riverman

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

You need the right hair for such flies. The (non-flaring, because
non-compressing) tips are used for the tail.

QUOTE

5. Selecting hair is a matter of deciding what you are going to do with
the
hair. You have two basic operations with deer or elk hair -- wings or
tails
and spinning. The best hair for wings and tails on flies like humpies,
Wulffs, compara duns, etc is located (a strip about a foot wide) on the
animal along the back bone, down over the shoulder, and down over the
rump.
The best hair for flaring or spinning is located on the rib and belly of
the
animal. Seldom to we get the opportunity to select hair from a complete
hide. Usually we are searching through a group of 3"x5" plastic bags in a
fly shop hoping we will get usable hair and later finding the hair does
not
fill our needs. Here's what you look for when selecting hair that is
already
packaged. The hair fibers located near the back bone of the animal has a
dark gray band in the middle of each -- the hair fiber is colored starting
with a dark point on the tip followed by a tan (deer) or cream (elk)
section
directly below the dark tip. From there the hair fiber enters a dark gray
area which eventually fades to a light gray area where the hair fiber
joins
the animal's hide. For wings and tail you need hair the is at least 50%
dark
grey in the middle of the hair. On the other hand if you are spinning hair
you want hair fibers whose middle section is mostly light grey in color.
REMEMBER -- dark gray hair, wings & tails --- light gray hair, spinning or
flaring. Back to the index.

UNQUOTE

Courtesy of http://www.btsflyfishing.com/Tips_Tricks/TT.htm



Thanks for that link and the quote: its come up here several times in the
past few years and I remembered it was out there, but forgot where.
Actually, I'm not using deer hair, so I have to be more educated in my
methods: I'm using some African critter that has hollow fiber hair like a
deer, but its a bit harder to work with. However, it sure flares easily, so
I think I really WILL stop trying to make humpies and instead just learn to
spin this. It might be rather special for that.

--riverman

Scott Seidman wrote in
. 1.4:

"riverman" wrote in
:

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie
on the tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest
tightening of the thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed
together like his do, they would fall off of the fly!


Try starting w/ looser wraps at the back of the tail, and tightening
up as you move toward the head when you tie down the tail. There are
some cases where "tight as you can get without breaking the thread" is
the wrong way to go.

Scott

Or rather, tight wraps as you start, getting looser as you come to the
rear. Also, sometimes it helps to go an extra wrap or two, then back off
to reduce flare.

Sorry for the confusion-- I've been tying Irresistables lately, where you
tie the tail from back to front, so you end up on blank hook.

Mike's suggestion about using the right hair type for the right task is
dead on, as well

Scott

Scott Seidman wrote in
. 1.4:

"riverman" wrote in
:

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie
on the tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest
tightening of the thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed
together like his do, they would fall off of the fly!


Try starting w/ looser wraps at the back of the tail, and tightening
up as you move toward the head when you tie down the tail. There are
some cases where "tight as you can get without breaking the thread" is
the wrong way to go.

Scott

Or rather, tight wraps as you start, getting looser as you come to the
rear. Also, sometimes it helps to go an extra wrap or two, then back off
to reduce flare.

Sorry for the confusion-- I've been tying Irresistables lately, where you
tie the tail from back to front, so you end up on blank hook.

Mike's suggestion about using the right hair type for the right task is
dead on, as well

Scott

riverman wrote:

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...

Humpies are a true PIA to tie. But, Harry Mason has the tips you need
to know for getting the tail/shellback/wing proportions right:
http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/humpy/

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie on the
tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest tightening of the
thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed together like his do,
they would fall off of the fly!

I think I see the problem. It may seem counter-intuitive, but in
order to keep from flaring deer hair too much, you want *light* pressure
right at the tail, tightening up as you go up the shank of the hook. If
you crank down tightly right at the bend, you will only cause the hair
to flare more.

And I hold the tail fibers in place until I'm finished wrapping up
and back. If you let them go, you'll be sorry.

Of course, for spinning deer hair, you want to do just the opposite.



Chuck Vance

riverman wrote:

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...

Humpies are a true PIA to tie. But, Harry Mason has the tips you need
to know for getting the tail/shellback/wing proportions right:
http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/humpy/

Nice site, thanks. But his aren't doing what mine do: even when I tie on the
tail, the fibers flare up and 'spin' with the slightest tightening of the
thread. If I were to tie it so that the tail stayed together like his do,
they would fall off of the fly!

I think I see the problem. It may seem counter-intuitive, but in
order to keep from flaring deer hair too much, you want *light* pressure
right at the tail, tightening up as you go up the shank of the hook. If
you crank down tightly right at the bend, you will only cause the hair
to flare more.

And I hold the tail fibers in place until I'm finished wrapping up
and back. If you let them go, you'll be sorry.

Of course, for spinning deer hair, you want to do just the opposite.



Chuck Vance

"riverman" wrote in message
...

Thanks for that link and the quote: its come up here several times in the
past few years and I remembered it was out there, but forgot where.
Actually, I'm not using deer hair, so I have to be more educated in my
methods: I'm using some African critter that has hollow fiber hair like a
deer, but its a bit harder to work with. However, it sure flares easily,
so
I think I really WILL stop trying to make humpies and instead just learn
to
spin this. It might be rather special for that.

--riverman



It is relatively easy to test the properties of various hair etc. Simply
bind some on a bare hook, and see what happens. Hair which flares, does so
because it is compressible, this often means that it is also buoyant.

If you want to tie "humpies" with such stuff, then use a hackle bunch or
similar for the tail ( or some other hair, antelope, calf, zebra, etc etc),
and then tie in a bunch of your flaring hair at the bend with the tips
pointing forwards. Wrap the body, tying down the tips, and then bring the
hair over, and tie it down. Apply your wings and hackles as usual, and that
was it. Looks and works perfectly well, but overcomes several problems;
sizing the hair, and getting the right type.

If you want to flare( spin) hair, then do it on a blank hook. Only tie down
after applying each bunch. Push each bunch back tightly to pack it ( finger
and thumbnail works for me), take a turn ( or a half hitch) to secure, ( a
drop of varnish after each clump makes such flies nearly bombproof)and apply
the next bunch. Do not try to trim any hair, until the last bunch has been
applied.

TL
MC

"riverman" wrote in message
...

Thanks for that link and the quote: its come up here several times in the
past few years and I remembered it was out there, but forgot where.
Actually, I'm not using deer hair, so I have to be more educated in my
methods: I'm using some African critter that has hollow fiber hair like a
deer, but its a bit harder to work with. However, it sure flares easily,
so
I think I really WILL stop trying to make humpies and instead just learn
to
spin this. It might be rather special for that.

--riverman



It is relatively easy to test the properties of various hair etc. Simply
bind some on a bare hook, and see what happens. Hair which flares, does so
because it is compressible, this often means that it is also buoyant.

If you want to tie "humpies" with such stuff, then use a hackle bunch or
similar for the tail ( or some other hair, antelope, calf, zebra, etc etc),
and then tie in a bunch of your flaring hair at the bend with the tips
pointing forwards. Wrap the body, tying down the tips, and then bring the
hair over, and tie it down. Apply your wings and hackles as usual, and that
was it. Looks and works perfectly well, but overcomes several problems;
sizing the hair, and getting the right type.

If you want to flare( spin) hair, then do it on a blank hook. Only tie down
after applying each bunch. Push each bunch back tightly to pack it ( finger
and thumbnail works for me), take a turn ( or a half hitch) to secure, ( a
drop of varnish after each clump makes such flies nearly bombproof)and apply
the next bunch. Do not try to trim any hair, until the last bunch has been
applied.

TL
MC