Waders Danger question

Tom Nakashima wrote:

Just curious, what happens if one accidentally gets in too deep and your
waders fill up with water?
I haven't been there yet, but it's crossed my mind if it happens. Sounds
like it could be a dangerous situation....not a great swimmer here.

I'll also pick up an wading staff from what I've been reading here, that ski
pole sounds like a great idea.

-tom

I've read that keeping your wading belt tight, and close to the top of
your waders is your best bet. If you fall in over the top of your, the
high wading belt will keep most of the water out, and not "balloon" full
of water. There won't be enough water pressure to force it's way past a
high belt. The same can't be said for a belt worn at your waist. It's my
understanding that this was tested by a white water rescue team, and
worked. Also the legs up and in front(like sitting in a recliner)was the
safest method.

I can't speak for the Michelin Man legs full of air, but that certainly
seems like it could be a problem.

I believe Dave L mentioned a vest as a potential problem. I was in a
serious situation, and found the drag from my vest to be a big factor.
Once I rid myself of the vest(with fish in net hanging from it), I was
able(barely)to climb out of the water. I wasn't in waders at time.

brians, oh, and the fish was safely released. ;-)

Brians writes:

I've read that keeping your wading belt tight, and close to the top of
your waders is your best bet. If you fall in over the top of your, the
high wading belt will keep most of the water out, and not "balloon" full
of water. There won't be enough water pressure to force it's way past a
high belt. The same can't be said for a belt worn at your waist. It's my
understanding that this was tested by a white water rescue team, and
worked. Also the legs up and in front(like sitting in a recliner)was the
safest method.

I can't speak for the Michelin Man legs full of air, but that certainly
seems like it could be a problem.

I don't think it is, because generally, when you are wading, there is very
little air in the legs portion of the waders (or the the torso portion if you
are deep) because of the water pressure. The waders cling to your legs. The
two times I had serious dunkings there was no air in the leg portion of my
waders (or, very little). The one that Jeff Miller witnessed, I did a backward
full Reid off of a rock into about 7-8 feet of water, with a not too swift
current. I "saved" my self by bouncing off of the bottom to get my head above
the water for a breath of air. I did this two or three times until I was in
water that I could stand. There was a foot of water in each leg, but a lot of
that drained in when I got out of the water and removed my wading belt.

The worse Reid I ever experienced was falling into a river (Second Current of
the Rapid in Maine) and the current swept me into water that is at least 15
feet deep and is part of a large pond. I ended up about 50 feet from land, but
managed to backstroke my way into water (Third Current) where I could stand.
It was scarey, of course, but it taught me that I probably could survive any
falls into *that* river. (Didn't lose my rod, either.)


I believe Dave L mentioned a vest as a potential problem. I was in a
serious situation, and found the drag from my vest to be a big factor.
Once I rid myself of the vest(with fish in net hanging from it), I was
able(barely)to climb out of the water. I wasn't in waders at time.

brians, oh, and the fish was safely released. ;-)

The vest, especially one weighted with many fly boxes, lunch, raincoat, and
all the other crap one carries, is the main problem. I had an acquaintance who
drowned while wading about 1/2 mile below the Lake Francis Dam in Pittsburg,
NH, where the Connecticut River begins. He was notorious for taking chances
wading (on the Rapid River) and apparently was in deep water when they released
the dam. They found his body down river. But, his is the only death I have
ever heard about because of wading, and I think he probably was doing something
foolish.

This past May, some dude in a kayak tipped over in the Rapid while they were
running a good flow. He had on waders and somehow got free of the kayak. His
waders filled with water *while* he was glinging to a rock in the middle of the
river. He told friends of mine (that saved him) that he took his knife and
literally cut the waders from his body. He was in the water about 20 minutes
before someone heard him and went for help. The guy that saved him, a
vetinarian from Mass., waded out to him while attached to a rope. They both
waded back to shore with the aid of the rope, wading staff and each other.
They recovered his rod, backpack, and kayak downstream.

Sorry for the long post.....

Dave LaCourse notes:
The one that Jeff Miller witnessed, I did a backward
full Reid off of a rock into about 7-8 feet of water, with a not too swift
current. I "saved" my self by bouncing off of the bottom to get my head
above
the water for a breath of air.

Note to all: bouncing your head off rocks is NOT the way to regain your
balance, in most cases. This only worked without long term damage for Our
Favorite Pirate because, well, let's just say it wasn't only the current that
"wasn't too swift"bseg

The vest, especially one weighted with many fly boxes, lunch, raincoat, and
all the other crap one carries, is the main problem.

in all seriousness, this comment is spot on. Weight of soaked vests and
sweaters and such has proved the most difficult force to overcome in my watery
ventures over the years. I used to routinely misjudge ledgerock on the
Farmington and a couple other CT rivers, so I do have some practice.
Tom

Dave LaCourse wrote:
I had an acquaintance who drowned while wading about 1/2 mile below the
Lake Francis Dam in Pittsburg, NH, where the Connecticut River
begins. He was notorious for taking chances wading (on the Rapid
River) and apparently was in deep water when they released the dam.
They found his body down river. But, his is the only death I have
ever heard about because of wading, and I think he probably was doing
something foolish.

Somebody died in the Deerfield last year while wading. Damn, I wish I could
remember his name - he wrote an excellent outdoors newsletter that was
distributed all over Western Mass. George - do you know who I'm talking
about? He got a foot stuck under a rock and the current pinned him to the
bottom (at least that's the version I heard). Keeping your feet downstream
and raised is the way to avoid getting trapped like that - riverman can
probably tell some stories...

You might also remember that a kid got seriously injured the same way lower
down the Deerfield at a summer camp maybe 3-4 years ago.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

From: "Stan Gula"

Somebody died in the Deerfield last year while wading. Damn, I wish I could
remember his name - he wrote an excellent outdoors newsletter that was
distributed all over Western Mass. George - do you know who I'm talking
about?

I remember the incident, but not the name.

A number of years ago, I saw a film made by Paul Kukonen that showed a
fisherman from Worcester, MA on the Salmon River in NY, lose his footing in a
riffle above a deep pool and get swept away. Unfotunately, he lost his life.
This sort of thing doesn't happen often, but it does happen.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

"Stan Gula" wrote in message
news:lPggd.8524$Ae3.3799@trndny02...
Somebody died in the Deerfield last year while wading. Damn, I wish I
could
remember his name - he wrote an excellent outdoors newsletter that was
distributed all over Western Mass. George - do you know who I'm talking
about? He got a foot stuck under a rock and the current pinned him to the
bottom (at least that's the version I heard). Keeping your feet
downstream
and raised is the way to avoid getting trapped like that - riverman can
probably tell some stories...


Absolutely. In the river running world, its called 'foot entrapment' and is
the single most dangerous aspect of being out of your boat in moving water.
The pressure of water is something like one ton of pressure per square foot
per ten mph. So if you are in a 14 mph current and get your foot trapped, a
comealong wouldn't your head up, life jacket or not. Cars get swept away in
10 mph streams that are less than 2 feet deep. Getting things (boats, cars,
bodies) off of rocks when they are entrapped is an artform. I've pulled well
over 200 boats free, fortunately never had to get a body out. The ones I
have come closest to having to recover came free during the night while we
were planning recoveries, when the water levels dropped.

Your body is not actually pinned against the bottom: its more like a flag
flapping in a strong breeze. But the shape of your ankle and foot is a lot
like a fishhook, and once its jammed under something, its very difficult to
get it back upstream to get it out. The common practice is exactly like how
you get an embedded hook out of your palm; you run a rope across the river,
downstream of the body. Then you walk back upstream until you have the rope
hooked under the body. You work it down until the rope is down near the
foot, then you pull back against the current until the body 'unhooks' the
rock and pops free. Virtually all foot entrapments occur in water about 2-3
feet deep. Deeper than that, and they float over the rocks. Shallower than
that, they tend to bump along on their butts and tumble along until they get
to deeper water.

The rule of thumb is to never stand up in water deeper than your knees, as
that is how deep the water can be while you hold your head up with your
arms. Of course, we wade water deeper than that all the time, and I don't
think most of us truly appreciate how easily even a 2-3 mph current could
hold you under if your foot is entrapped. We had a thread about this a
short while ago.

If you fall over, get your feet UP, lay as flat as you possibly can, and
swim out of the current, or at least over to where you can hold on to
something while you 'feel around' with your feet to get a purchase. But
treat the bottom like a minefield.

--riverman

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:28:50 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:

(snipped)

The rule of thumb is to never stand up in water deeper than your knees, as
that is how deep the water can be while you hold your head up with your
arms. Of course, we wade water deeper than that all the time,

Not once you've had your foot trapped. Not on purpose. No more.
Luckily I popped it loose while I was still able to hang onto the
canoe. Didn't even lose the shoe, which, believe me, I'd not have
minded losing in the least. Possibly an argument for stocking foot
waders with boots over instead of boot foot waders?

and I don't
think most of us truly appreciate how easily even a 2-3 mph current could
hold you under if your foot is entrapped. We had a thread about this a
short while ago.

When I did the stupid, it was in a river flowing at 3 mph, but on the
edge of a mild rapid, so the flow might have been more. Not more than
5mph, though. And it looked mellow. I was, aside from being too deep
in water with current, being fairly careful, too.


Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

"riverman" wrote in message
...

Absolutely. In the river running world, its called 'foot entrapment' and
is the single most dangerous aspect of being out of your boat in moving
water. The pressure of water is something like one ton of pressure per
square foot per ten mph. So if you are in a 14 mph current and get your
foot trapped, a comealong wouldn't your head up, life jacket or not. Cars
get swept away in 10 mph streams that are less than 2 feet deep. Getting
things (boats, cars, bodies) off of rocks when they are entrapped is an
artform. I've pulled well over 200 boats free, fortunately never had to
get a body out. The ones I have come closest to having to recover came
free during the night while we were planning recoveries, when the water
levels dropped.

Your body is not actually pinned against the bottom: its more like a flag
flapping in a strong breeze. But the shape of your ankle and foot is a lot
like a fishhook, and once its jammed under something, its very difficult
to get it back upstream to get it out. The common practice is exactly like
how you get an embedded hook out of your palm; you run a rope across the
river, downstream of the body. Then you walk back upstream until you have
the rope hooked under the body. You work it down until the rope is down
near the foot, then you pull back against the current until the body
'unhooks' the rock and pops free. Virtually all foot entrapments occur in
water about 2-3 feet deep. Deeper than that, and they float over the
rocks. Shallower than that, they tend to bump along on their butts and
tumble along until they get to deeper water.

The rule of thumb is to never stand up in water deeper than your knees, as
that is how deep the water can be while you hold your head up with your
arms. Of course, we wade water deeper than that all the time, and I don't
think most of us truly appreciate how easily even a 2-3 mph current could
hold you under if your foot is entrapped. We had a thread about this a
short while ago.

If you fall over, get your feet UP, lay as flat as you possibly can, and
swim out of the current, or at least over to where you can hold on to
something while you 'feel around' with your feet to get a purchase. But
treat the bottom like a minefield.

--riverman

A high school kid died in the Nantahala river in North Carolina four or five
years ago. The situation was just as you described. I don't think the water
was even two feet deep. It probably happens more often than that, but I'm
familiar with that one because someone I know was a rafting guide on the
river at that time. I think about that every time I wade those freestone
streams.
Bob

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:28:50 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:

(snipped)

The rule of thumb is to never stand up in water deeper than your knees, as
that is how deep the water can be while you hold your head up with your
arms. Of course, we wade water deeper than that all the time,

Not once you've had your foot trapped. Not on purpose. No more.
Luckily I popped it loose while I was still able to hang onto the
canoe. Didn't even lose the shoe, which, believe me, I'd not have
minded losing in the least. Possibly an argument for stocking foot
waders with boots over instead of boot foot waders?

and I don't
think most of us truly appreciate how easily even a 2-3 mph current could
hold you under if your foot is entrapped. We had a thread about this a
short while ago.

When I did the stupid, it was in a river flowing at 3 mph, but on the
edge of a mild rapid, so the flow might have been more. Not more than
5mph, though. And it looked mellow. I was, aside from being too deep
in water with current, being fairly careful, too.


Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

"Stan Gula" wrote in message
news:lPggd.8524$Ae3.3799@trndny02...
Somebody died in the Deerfield last year while wading. Damn, I wish I
could
remember his name - he wrote an excellent outdoors newsletter that was
distributed all over Western Mass. George - do you know who I'm talking
about? He got a foot stuck under a rock and the current pinned him to the
bottom (at least that's the version I heard). Keeping your feet
downstream
and raised is the way to avoid getting trapped like that - riverman can
probably tell some stories...


Absolutely. In the river running world, its called 'foot entrapment' and is
the single most dangerous aspect of being out of your boat in moving water.
The pressure of water is something like one ton of pressure per square foot
per ten mph. So if you are in a 14 mph current and get your foot trapped, a
comealong wouldn't your head up, life jacket or not. Cars get swept away in
10 mph streams that are less than 2 feet deep. Getting things (boats, cars,
bodies) off of rocks when they are entrapped is an artform. I've pulled well
over 200 boats free, fortunately never had to get a body out. The ones I
have come closest to having to recover came free during the night while we
were planning recoveries, when the water levels dropped.

Your body is not actually pinned against the bottom: its more like a flag
flapping in a strong breeze. But the shape of your ankle and foot is a lot
like a fishhook, and once its jammed under something, its very difficult to
get it back upstream to get it out. The common practice is exactly like how
you get an embedded hook out of your palm; you run a rope across the river,
downstream of the body. Then you walk back upstream until you have the rope
hooked under the body. You work it down until the rope is down near the
foot, then you pull back against the current until the body 'unhooks' the
rock and pops free. Virtually all foot entrapments occur in water about 2-3
feet deep. Deeper than that, and they float over the rocks. Shallower than
that, they tend to bump along on their butts and tumble along until they get
to deeper water.

The rule of thumb is to never stand up in water deeper than your knees, as
that is how deep the water can be while you hold your head up with your
arms. Of course, we wade water deeper than that all the time, and I don't
think most of us truly appreciate how easily even a 2-3 mph current could
hold you under if your foot is entrapped. We had a thread about this a
short while ago.

If you fall over, get your feet UP, lay as flat as you possibly can, and
swim out of the current, or at least over to where you can hold on to
something while you 'feel around' with your feet to get a purchase. But
treat the bottom like a minefield.

--riverman