More Good News!

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:Ykdhd.3214$GN4.1950@okepread02...
//snip//
BTW, American politics were never more nasty than in the years
immediately following the Revolution. It isn't even close. That was
NASTY!

What mystifies me is that now, with our far larger population, we can't
find political leaders with nearly as much character, intelligence,
vision, and bravery.

imo, the siren song of capitalism is simply too powerful...

jeff


Harry Truman might fit the bill. And I think a pretty good argument could be
made for Lyndon Johnson. He got involved in the southeast Asia war, but he
inherited that and, considering the temper of the times, had little
alternative but to get farther into it instead of getting out.

But, as somebody said, it's been a long time between drinks.

Another good read is John Adams by David McCullough. During the 19th
century, and especially in the first half, presidential campaigns were
considerably nastier than today's.

Bob

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:55:57 -0600, "Bob Patton"
rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote:

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:Ykdhd.3214$GN4.1950@okepread02...
//snip//
BTW, American politics were never more nasty than in the years
immediately following the Revolution. It isn't even close. That was
NASTY!

What mystifies me is that now, with our far larger population, we can't
find political leaders with nearly as much character, intelligence,
vision, and bravery.

imo, the siren song of capitalism is simply too powerful...

jeff


Harry Truman might fit the bill. And I think a pretty good argument could be
made for Lyndon Johnson. He got involved in the southeast Asia war, but he
inherited that and, considering the temper of the times, had little
alternative but to get farther into it instead of getting out.

But, as somebody said, it's been a long time between drinks.

Another good read is John Adams by David McCullough. During the 19th
century, and especially in the first half, presidential campaigns were
considerably nastier than today's.

Bob


We have a different view of Johnson so he wouldn't make my list.

Jeff, alternate view, the primary system weeds out the ones with real
talent.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:55:57 -0600, "Bob Patton"
//snip// We have a different view of Johnson so he wouldn't make my list.

Jeff, alternate view, the primary system weeds out the ones with real
talent.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Hard to tell about Johnson. Certainly no intellectual, and his personal
characteristics were pretty crude. But nobody other than a southern democrat
could have done what he did in terms of civil rights.
Bob

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:55:57 -0600, "Bob Patton"
//snip// We have a different view of Johnson so he wouldn't make my list.

Jeff, alternate view, the primary system weeds out the ones with real
talent.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Hard to tell about Johnson. Certainly no intellectual, and his personal
characteristics were pretty crude. But nobody other than a southern democrat
could have done what he did in terms of civil rights.
Bob

Bob Patton wrote:

Another good read is John Adams by David McCullough. During the 19th
century, and especially in the first half, presidential campaigns were
considerably nastier than today's.

Superb book, Bob. I also recommend Benjamin Franklin by Walter Isaacson,
Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow, and Founding Brothers: The
Revolutionary Generation by Joseph Ellis.

These biographers (aside from Ellis, who is pretty neutral and all
inclusive) inevitably become emotionally attached to their subjects. You
have to read a cross section to get an accurate picture.

I'm starting to think that Thomas Jefferson, who used to be a hero of
mine, might have been the nastiest SOB of them all, but I haven't read
his biography yet. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
m...
//snip// I also recommend Benjamin Franklin by Walter Isaacson, Alexander
Hamilton by Ron Chernow, and Founding Brothers: The Revolutionary
Generation by Joseph Ellis.

These biographers (aside from Ellis, who is pretty neutral and all
inclusive) inevitably become emotionally attached to their subjects. You
have to read a cross section to get an accurate picture.

I'm starting to think that Thomas Jefferson, who used to be a hero of
mine, might have been the nastiest SOB of them all, but I haven't read his
biography yet. :-)


Haven't read the Hamilton book, but the other two are here on my desk, and I
agree that they are superb.

As for Jefferson, we need to be careful of revisionist history that examines
historical figures in the light of current societal mores. I'm sure that TJ
was a good self-promoter, but he had a lot to work with.

Bob

Bob Patton wrote:

As for Jefferson, we need to be careful of revisionist history that examines
historical figures in the light of current societal mores. I'm sure that TJ
was a good self-promoter, but he had a lot to work with.

Bob

Jefferson had his talents, to be sure, but he was a sneaky SOB who
seldom revealed his views in public, but talked behind his opponents'
backs and funded hit-man surrogates. He was also a supreme hypocrite,
who extolled the virtues of the simple, common man, while borrowing to
his ruination to support a lavish lifestyle. He also blindly supported
the French Revolution, even until long after it devolved into a
nightmarish bloodbath. Don't even get me started on his astonishingly
hypocritical position on slavery -- that would be revisionism.

In his old age he seemed to come to terms with his disgraceful past, as
revealed in his correspondence with John Adams, his old and bitter
Federalist enemy.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Bob Patton wrote:

As for Jefferson, we need to be careful of revisionist history that examines
historical figures in the light of current societal mores. I'm sure that TJ
was a good self-promoter, but he had a lot to work with.

Bob

Jefferson had his talents, to be sure, but he was a sneaky SOB who
seldom revealed his views in public, but talked behind his opponents'
backs and funded hit-man surrogates. He was also a supreme hypocrite,
who extolled the virtues of the simple, common man, while borrowing to
his ruination to support a lavish lifestyle. He also blindly supported
the French Revolution, even until long after it devolved into a
nightmarish bloodbath. Don't even get me started on his astonishingly
hypocritical position on slavery -- that would be revisionism.

In his old age he seemed to come to terms with his disgraceful past, as
revealed in his correspondence with John Adams, his old and bitter
Federalist enemy.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
m...
//snip// I also recommend Benjamin Franklin by Walter Isaacson, Alexander
Hamilton by Ron Chernow, and Founding Brothers: The Revolutionary
Generation by Joseph Ellis.

These biographers (aside from Ellis, who is pretty neutral and all
inclusive) inevitably become emotionally attached to their subjects. You
have to read a cross section to get an accurate picture.

I'm starting to think that Thomas Jefferson, who used to be a hero of
mine, might have been the nastiest SOB of them all, but I haven't read his
biography yet. :-)


Haven't read the Hamilton book, but the other two are here on my desk, and I
agree that they are superb.

As for Jefferson, we need to be careful of revisionist history that examines
historical figures in the light of current societal mores. I'm sure that TJ
was a good self-promoter, but he had a lot to work with.

Bob

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:55:57 -0600, "Bob Patton"
rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote:

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:Ykdhd.3214$GN4.1950@okepread02...
//snip//
BTW, American politics were never more nasty than in the years
immediately following the Revolution. It isn't even close. That was
NASTY!

What mystifies me is that now, with our far larger population, we can't
find political leaders with nearly as much character, intelligence,
vision, and bravery.

imo, the siren song of capitalism is simply too powerful...

jeff


Harry Truman might fit the bill. And I think a pretty good argument could be
made for Lyndon Johnson. He got involved in the southeast Asia war, but he
inherited that and, considering the temper of the times, had little
alternative but to get farther into it instead of getting out.

But, as somebody said, it's been a long time between drinks.

Another good read is John Adams by David McCullough. During the 19th
century, and especially in the first half, presidential campaigns were
considerably nastier than today's.

Bob


We have a different view of Johnson so he wouldn't make my list.

Jeff, alternate view, the primary system weeds out the ones with real
talent.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html