Bait Cast First Timer

I've been reading many posts made over the past months regarding bait
cast reels, their pro's and con's, and proper technique. Glad I did.

I just treated myself to my first bait cast reel and, based on many of
your suggestions, went with a Shimano Curado. I picked up the Curado
and a BPS Extreme combo for $169. I've been using the Shimano Sahara
spinning reels for some time and like them (one on a BPS Extreme and
one one a BPS Bionic Blade), so it wasn't much of a stretch to go with
this bait cast combo.

For learning purposes I had the reel loaded with 17lb mono. I
positioned all of the plastic "active brakes" to the on position,
grabbed about a 1/2 ounce worth of plastic bait, and headed to the
pond behind my house for some casting practice. Someone should have
had a movie camera running because that's when the comedy began.

I remembered someone mentioning the cast control knob and that it
should be adjusted such that the lure gently falls to the
ground/water/floor when the spool is released. Ok, I held the rod up,
released the spool, watched the lure fall quickly to the ground, and
then watched my first overrun! Uh, gee, maybe I should have had my
thumb on the spool just in case the cast control was too loose?

Score so far: 1 overrun - 0 casts to the water.

Now, anyone who grew up on spincast reels knows that the push button
on the reel locks the line when fully depressed - right? And a bait
cast reel probably does the same thing - right? Wrong! So I push the
clutch bar, swing the rod behind me and discover the lure impacting
the bank behind me. Plus, you know it, of course the spool is spinning
and creating the second overrun.

Score so far: 2 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

While I have been using nothing but spinning reels for a while, they
don't have the push button/clutch bar, so there has been nothing to
erase my spincast memory of thumb timing. While I now had the "clutch
bar does not lock the spool" code broken, the release timing was whole
other lesson to learn.

On my second attempt at making a cast I had my thumb positioned to
depress the clutch bar and instantly contact the spool, thus holding
it from rotating. I made a beautiful overhead cast, letting go of the
spool about the same time in the swing that I would have let go of the
button on the spincast reel - and made resounding thumb on the ground
with the lure just a few feet in front of me! You know what happens
to the spool when the lure stops like that? Right, it keeps going. I
did react with my thumb but was still looking out over the water for a
fraction of a second, expecting to see the lure flying across the
water, and didn't quite react in time.

Sore so far: 3 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

Had that cast gone just another foot or so, I would have made the
water! The next cast was about 10 feet longer and I'd finally made the
water.

Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or
overruns?

JimC

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

Here are two mentions that might really help.

I think it's _far_ easier to cast a baitcast reel with a side throw, rather
then an over head throw. Which leads me to my second mention. Try casting my
twisting your wrist... _not_ by throwing your arm around like your throwing
a baseball. You will have _much_ better control over the line as, instead of
moving the reel and stopping it to draw out line, you will be letting the
lure build up speed and peel off line from the reel. I'm not sure I can
explain very well but try it. I think it will be much easier.

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or overruns?

I'm fairly new to bait casters myself..I started out with mono and have just
started moving over to braid..as explained ot me, braid can be a tad harder
to cast because of its weight but regardless of that it's more difficult to
pick out backlash, especially bad backlash.

This was what I was told and may not be 100% accurate to your situation.
Since I've switched to 30lb power pro, I've found no issue with casting and
no real additional difficulty getting out backlash.

Your mileage may vary..i certainly recommend you become proficcent with mono
before trying what may be more advanced.

Christopher

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
I've been reading many posts made over the past months regarding bait
cast reels, their pro's and con's, and proper technique. Glad I did.

***Hi Jim, welcome to the world of baitcasting, with all of it's benefits
and frustrations.

I just treated myself to my first bait cast reel and, based on many of
your suggestions, went with a Shimano Curado. I picked up the Curado
and a BPS Extreme combo for $169. I've been using the Shimano Sahara
spinning reels for some time and like them (one on a BPS Extreme and
one one a BPS Bionic Blade), so it wasn't much of a stretch to go with
this bait cast combo.

***An excellent choice in reels.

For learning purposes I had the reel loaded with 17lb mono. I
positioned all of the plastic "active brakes" to the on position,
grabbed about a 1/2 ounce worth of plastic bait, and headed to the
pond behind my house for some casting practice. Someone should have
had a movie camera running because that's when the comedy began.

***That's the way it always is. There's never a camera around when you need
one. But cheer up, it gets better, all you need is practice, practice,
practice.

I remembered someone mentioning the cast control knob and that it
should be adjusted such that the lure gently falls to the
ground/water/floor when the spool is released. Ok, I held the rod up,
released the spool, watched the lure fall quickly to the ground, and
then watched my first overrun! Uh, gee, maybe I should have had my
thumb on the spool just in case the cast control was too loose?

***For my clients that are new to baitcasting, I adjust my reels with the
rod held horizontal, then adjust the cast control so that there's just
barely a loop of loose line when the lure hits the ground.

Score so far: 1 overrun - 0 casts to the water.

Now, anyone who grew up on spincast reels knows that the push button
on the reel locks the line when fully depressed - right? And a bait
cast reel probably does the same thing - right? Wrong! So I push the
clutch bar, swing the rod behind me and discover the lure impacting
the bank behind me. Plus, you know it, of course the spool is spinning
and creating the second overrun.

***LOL, seen that, picked out the results......

Score so far: 2 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

While I have been using nothing but spinning reels for a while, they
don't have the push button/clutch bar, so there has been nothing to
erase my spincast memory of thumb timing. While I now had the "clutch
bar does not lock the spool" code broken, the release timing was whole
other lesson to learn.

***For now, concentrate on just getting the lure out there. Don't worry
about flat trajectories, that will come with time. Make those high, lobbing
casts for now, they're pretty easy to do.

On my second attempt at making a cast I had my thumb positioned to
depress the clutch bar and instantly contact the spool, thus holding
it from rotating. I made a beautiful overhead cast, letting go of the
spool about the same time in the swing that I would have let go of the
button on the spincast reel - and made resounding thumb on the ground
with the lure just a few feet in front of me! You know what happens
to the spool when the lure stops like that? Right, it keeps going. I
did react with my thumb but was still looking out over the water for a
fraction of a second, expecting to see the lure flying across the
water, and didn't quite react in time.

***It's all in the timing and how you're snapping the rod. I prefer to
teach clients new to baitcasting the overhead cast. I've seen too many
clients that could "only" cast sidearm. I have the chips in my outboard
cowl, console and windshield to prove that. I've also had many lures come
whizzing dangerously close to me, so stick with the overhead cast, it's a
little more difficult to learn the timing, but it's FAR safer!

Sore so far: 3 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

Had that cast gone just another foot or so, I would have made the
water! The next cast was about 10 feet longer and I'd finally made the
water.

Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

***It's a biggie, there's no doubt about it.

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

***It's hard to say if you'll get longer casts with a superbraid or not,
you'll get conflicting reports on that. Personally, I've found that I can
cast further with PowerPro, but I've heard just the opposite as well. A
couple of the things that I do like about braid over mono, especially for
beginners is that backlashes (for me at least) seem easier to pick out. A
problem with mono is that in the event of a particularly bad backlash, the
line is going to be kinked, thus weakening it. This means that if you're
going to be using that line for fishing, you run the risks of break-offs
much easier. With braid, it doesn't matter if it's kinked or not, it still
has the same break strength. Just remember, to get line that has a diameter
similar to what you'd be using with mono. I've found that 30-50 pound is
pretty easy to get backlashes out.

Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or
overruns?

***As far as the over-runs, read above. Cutting in is only a problem if the
line is put on the spool too loose to begin with. When I spool new line, I
run the line through the jaws of a vise that have been padded with a towel
that's been folded over a couple of times. Then I tighten the jaws until
I'm just barely able to wind the line on the spool with the drag cranked
down tight. That way, I know the line is on tight and cut-ins won't be a
problem. Eventually, the line will loosen up on the spool from fishing, at
that point, I'll tie on a deep diving crankbait and while motoring away,
releasing line until I'm back down to packed line. At that point, I'll shut
down the motor (otherwise, I'd be trolling and that's illegal on most of my
waters) and crank the heavily resisting bait back in. Either that or I'll
tie the end to a fencepost or something similarly solid and back up, once
down to packed line, I then slowly reel the line back on with a lot of
tension.

Good luck and keep at it.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

JimC

I appreciate the support and shared insights. I will master this beast
someday. Today I used the Curado fishing for the first time (took M-W
off from work and am making the best of it). I tied on a 4/0 hook.
Slipped on a Senko-type lure of the 5+ inch variety, and targeted all
the good cover I could find. It may be November, but here in FL there
are plenty of bass still up shallow.

It took some practice, but I was able to get the lure out some pretty
good distances. It also flew some really short distances from time to
time. I tried overhead and side casts with about equal success - and
failure. There were some overruns but they were pretty minor. Usually
they were just line becoming too loose on the spool. That makes an
interesting sound when casting. Think I'll call it "line fart". I am
happy that I never really had one of those huge "nests" to pull out.
I'm trying to error on the side of too much thumb and that might have
saved me couple of times.

Using this 17lb mono to train with seems ok except for the stretch.
I've been using nothing but PowerPro for a little over a year and am
used to the non-stretch performance. The first bass of the day hit out
at the far end of the cast and when I went to set the hook I nearly
fell over backwards! I normally could put the rod that far back
without the fish flying through the air towards me. With mono it's
hard to tell if the hook is set or not. I'm also usually able to
easily tell the bump of a weed or pad apart from the bump of a fish.
Not so easy with the monofilament. I think I'll put the braid on
pretty soon. I sure miss it.

Oh, I also broke the line on the last cast of the day. It was an
overhead cast and the line broke off at the reel. I have no idea where
the lure went. I also have not dug the end of the line out of the reel
yet.

This is great fun and I'll be back at it tomorrow. Thanks again to all
for the freindly words.

JimC


"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in message ...
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
I've been reading many posts made over the past months regarding bait
cast reels, their pro's and con's, and proper technique. Glad I did.

***Hi Jim, welcome to the world of baitcasting, with all of it's benefits
and frustrations.

I just treated myself to my first bait cast reel and, based on many of
your suggestions, went with a Shimano Curado. I picked up the Curado
and a BPS Extreme combo for $169. I've been using the Shimano Sahara
spinning reels for some time and like them (one on a BPS Extreme and
one one a BPS Bionic Blade), so it wasn't much of a stretch to go with
this bait cast combo.

***An excellent choice in reels.

For learning purposes I had the reel loaded with 17lb mono. I
positioned all of the plastic "active brakes" to the on position,
grabbed about a 1/2 ounce worth of plastic bait, and headed to the
pond behind my house for some casting practice. Someone should have
had a movie camera running because that's when the comedy began.

***That's the way it always is. There's never a camera around when you need
one. But cheer up, it gets better, all you need is practice, practice,
practice.

I remembered someone mentioning the cast control knob and that it
should be adjusted such that the lure gently falls to the
ground/water/floor when the spool is released. Ok, I held the rod up,
released the spool, watched the lure fall quickly to the ground, and
then watched my first overrun! Uh, gee, maybe I should have had my
thumb on the spool just in case the cast control was too loose?

***For my clients that are new to baitcasting, I adjust my reels with the
rod held horizontal, then adjust the cast control so that there's just
barely a loop of loose line when the lure hits the ground.

Score so far: 1 overrun - 0 casts to the water.

Now, anyone who grew up on spincast reels knows that the push button
on the reel locks the line when fully depressed - right? And a bait
cast reel probably does the same thing - right? Wrong! So I push the
clutch bar, swing the rod behind me and discover the lure impacting
the bank behind me. Plus, you know it, of course the spool is spinning
and creating the second overrun.

***LOL, seen that, picked out the results......

Score so far: 2 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

While I have been using nothing but spinning reels for a while, they
don't have the push button/clutch bar, so there has been nothing to
erase my spincast memory of thumb timing. While I now had the "clutch
bar does not lock the spool" code broken, the release timing was whole
other lesson to learn.

***For now, concentrate on just getting the lure out there. Don't worry
about flat trajectories, that will come with time. Make those high, lobbing
casts for now, they're pretty easy to do.

On my second attempt at making a cast I had my thumb positioned to
depress the clutch bar and instantly contact the spool, thus holding
it from rotating. I made a beautiful overhead cast, letting go of the
spool about the same time in the swing that I would have let go of the
button on the spincast reel - and made resounding thumb on the ground
with the lure just a few feet in front of me! You know what happens
to the spool when the lure stops like that? Right, it keeps going. I
did react with my thumb but was still looking out over the water for a
fraction of a second, expecting to see the lure flying across the
water, and didn't quite react in time.

***It's all in the timing and how you're snapping the rod. I prefer to
teach clients new to baitcasting the overhead cast. I've seen too many
clients that could "only" cast sidearm. I have the chips in my outboard
cowl, console and windshield to prove that. I've also had many lures come
whizzing dangerously close to me, so stick with the overhead cast, it's a
little more difficult to learn the timing, but it's FAR safer!

Sore so far: 3 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

Had that cast gone just another foot or so, I would have made the
water! The next cast was about 10 feet longer and I'd finally made the
water.

Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

***It's a biggie, there's no doubt about it.

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

***It's hard to say if you'll get longer casts with a superbraid or not,
you'll get conflicting reports on that. Personally, I've found that I can
cast further with PowerPro, but I've heard just the opposite as well. A
couple of the things that I do like about braid over mono, especially for
beginners is that backlashes (for me at least) seem easier to pick out. A
problem with mono is that in the event of a particularly bad backlash, the
line is going to be kinked, thus weakening it. This means that if you're
going to be using that line for fishing, you run the risks of break-offs
much easier. With braid, it doesn't matter if it's kinked or not, it still
has the same break strength. Just remember, to get line that has a diameter
similar to what you'd be using with mono. I've found that 30-50 pound is
pretty easy to get backlashes out.

Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or
overruns?

***As far as the over-runs, read above. Cutting in is only a problem if the
line is put on the spool too loose to begin with. When I spool new line, I
run the line through the jaws of a vise that have been padded with a towel
that's been folded over a couple of times. Then I tighten the jaws until
I'm just barely able to wind the line on the spool with the drag cranked
down tight. That way, I know the line is on tight and cut-ins won't be a
problem. Eventually, the line will loosen up on the spool from fishing, at
that point, I'll tie on a deep diving crankbait and while motoring away,
releasing line until I'm back down to packed line. At that point, I'll shut
down the motor (otherwise, I'd be trolling and that's illegal on most of my
waters) and crank the heavily resisting bait back in. Either that or I'll
tie the end to a fencepost or something similarly solid and back up, once
down to packed line, I then slowly reel the line back on with a lot of
tension.

Good luck and keep at it.

If you're casting a Senko with the baitcaster... you're already doing better
than me! Usually the spinning rod is better suited for me when fishing
weightless plastics.

Keep at it! The first Curado for me was the hardest one to purchase, but
when you realize what a sweet reel it is, the others come easy.

Still learning myself, after several years...
Charles

PS: Happy Thanksgiving to all you Americans!


"Jim" wrote in message
om...
I appreciate the support and shared insights. I will master this beast
someday. Today I used the Curado fishing for the first time (took M-W
off from work and am making the best of it). I tied on a 4/0 hook.
Slipped on a Senko-type lure of the 5+ inch variety, and targeted all
the good cover I could find. It may be November, but here in FL there
are plenty of bass still up shallow.

It took some practice, but I was able to get the lure out some pretty
good distances. It also flew some really short distances from time to
time. I tried overhead and side casts with about equal success - and
failure. There were some overruns but they were pretty minor. Usually
they were just line becoming too loose on the spool. That makes an
interesting sound when casting. Think I'll call it "line fart". I am
happy that I never really had one of those huge "nests" to pull out.
I'm trying to error on the side of too much thumb and that might have
saved me couple of times.

Using this 17lb mono to train with seems ok except for the stretch.
I've been using nothing but PowerPro for a little over a year and am
used to the non-stretch performance. The first bass of the day hit out
at the far end of the cast and when I went to set the hook I nearly
fell over backwards! I normally could put the rod that far back
without the fish flying through the air towards me. With mono it's
hard to tell if the hook is set or not. I'm also usually able to
easily tell the bump of a weed or pad apart from the bump of a fish.
Not so easy with the monofilament. I think I'll put the braid on
pretty soon. I sure miss it.

Oh, I also broke the line on the last cast of the day. It was an
overhead cast and the line broke off at the reel. I have no idea where
the lure went. I also have not dug the end of the line out of the reel
yet.

This is great fun and I'll be back at it tomorrow. Thanks again to all
for the freindly words.

JimC


"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
I've been reading many posts made over the past months regarding bait
cast reels, their pro's and con's, and proper technique. Glad I did.

***Hi Jim, welcome to the world of baitcasting, with all of it's
benefits
and frustrations.

I just treated myself to my first bait cast reel and, based on many of
your suggestions, went with a Shimano Curado. I picked up the Curado
and a BPS Extreme combo for $169. I've been using the Shimano Sahara
spinning reels for some time and like them (one on a BPS Extreme and
one one a BPS Bionic Blade), so it wasn't much of a stretch to go with
this bait cast combo.

***An excellent choice in reels.

For learning purposes I had the reel loaded with 17lb mono. I
positioned all of the plastic "active brakes" to the on position,
grabbed about a 1/2 ounce worth of plastic bait, and headed to the
pond behind my house for some casting practice. Someone should have
had a movie camera running because that's when the comedy began.

***That's the way it always is. There's never a camera around when you
need
one. But cheer up, it gets better, all you need is practice, practice,
practice.

I remembered someone mentioning the cast control knob and that it
should be adjusted such that the lure gently falls to the
ground/water/floor when the spool is released. Ok, I held the rod up,
released the spool, watched the lure fall quickly to the ground, and
then watched my first overrun! Uh, gee, maybe I should have had my
thumb on the spool just in case the cast control was too loose?

***For my clients that are new to baitcasting, I adjust my reels with
the
rod held horizontal, then adjust the cast control so that there's just
barely a loop of loose line when the lure hits the ground.

Score so far: 1 overrun - 0 casts to the water.

Now, anyone who grew up on spincast reels knows that the push button
on the reel locks the line when fully depressed - right? And a bait
cast reel probably does the same thing - right? Wrong! So I push the
clutch bar, swing the rod behind me and discover the lure impacting
the bank behind me. Plus, you know it, of course the spool is spinning
and creating the second overrun.

***LOL, seen that, picked out the results......

Score so far: 2 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

While I have been using nothing but spinning reels for a while, they
don't have the push button/clutch bar, so there has been nothing to
erase my spincast memory of thumb timing. While I now had the "clutch
bar does not lock the spool" code broken, the release timing was whole
other lesson to learn.

***For now, concentrate on just getting the lure out there. Don't worry
about flat trajectories, that will come with time. Make those high,
lobbing
casts for now, they're pretty easy to do.

On my second attempt at making a cast I had my thumb positioned to
depress the clutch bar and instantly contact the spool, thus holding
it from rotating. I made a beautiful overhead cast, letting go of the
spool about the same time in the swing that I would have let go of the
button on the spincast reel - and made resounding thumb on the ground
with the lure just a few feet in front of me! You know what happens
to the spool when the lure stops like that? Right, it keeps going. I
did react with my thumb but was still looking out over the water for a
fraction of a second, expecting to see the lure flying across the
water, and didn't quite react in time.

***It's all in the timing and how you're snapping the rod. I prefer to
teach clients new to baitcasting the overhead cast. I've seen too many
clients that could "only" cast sidearm. I have the chips in my outboard
cowl, console and windshield to prove that. I've also had many lures
come
whizzing dangerously close to me, so stick with the overhead cast, it's
a
little more difficult to learn the timing, but it's FAR safer!

Sore so far: 3 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

Had that cast gone just another foot or so, I would have made the
water! The next cast was about 10 feet longer and I'd finally made the
water.

Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

***It's a biggie, there's no doubt about it.

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

***It's hard to say if you'll get longer casts with a superbraid or not,
you'll get conflicting reports on that. Personally, I've found that I
can
cast further with PowerPro, but I've heard just the opposite as well. A
couple of the things that I do like about braid over mono, especially
for
beginners is that backlashes (for me at least) seem easier to pick out.
A
problem with mono is that in the event of a particularly bad backlash,
the
line is going to be kinked, thus weakening it. This means that if
you're
going to be using that line for fishing, you run the risks of break-offs
much easier. With braid, it doesn't matter if it's kinked or not, it
still
has the same break strength. Just remember, to get line that has a
diameter
similar to what you'd be using with mono. I've found that 30-50 pound
is
pretty easy to get backlashes out.

Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or
overruns?

***As far as the over-runs, read above. Cutting in is only a problem if
the
line is put on the spool too loose to begin with. When I spool new
line, I
run the line through the jaws of a vise that have been padded with a
towel
that's been folded over a couple of times. Then I tighten the jaws
until
I'm just barely able to wind the line on the spool with the drag cranked
down tight. That way, I know the line is on tight and cut-ins won't be
a
problem. Eventually, the line will loosen up on the spool from fishing,
at
that point, I'll tie on a deep diving crankbait and while motoring away,
releasing line until I'm back down to packed line. At that point, I'll
shut
down the motor (otherwise, I'd be trolling and that's illegal on most of
my
waters) and crank the heavily resisting bait back in. Either that or
I'll
tie the end to a fencepost or something similarly solid and back up,
once
down to packed line, I then slowly reel the line back on with a lot of
tension.

Good luck and keep at it.

If you're casting a Senko with the baitcaster... you're already doing better
than me! Usually the spinning rod is better suited for me when fishing
weightless plastics.

Keep at it! The first Curado for me was the hardest one to purchase, but
when you realize what a sweet reel it is, the others come easy.

Still learning myself, after several years...
Charles

PS: Happy Thanksgiving to all you Americans!


"Jim" wrote in message
om...
I appreciate the support and shared insights. I will master this beast
someday. Today I used the Curado fishing for the first time (took M-W
off from work and am making the best of it). I tied on a 4/0 hook.
Slipped on a Senko-type lure of the 5+ inch variety, and targeted all
the good cover I could find. It may be November, but here in FL there
are plenty of bass still up shallow.

It took some practice, but I was able to get the lure out some pretty
good distances. It also flew some really short distances from time to
time. I tried overhead and side casts with about equal success - and
failure. There were some overruns but they were pretty minor. Usually
they were just line becoming too loose on the spool. That makes an
interesting sound when casting. Think I'll call it "line fart". I am
happy that I never really had one of those huge "nests" to pull out.
I'm trying to error on the side of too much thumb and that might have
saved me couple of times.

Using this 17lb mono to train with seems ok except for the stretch.
I've been using nothing but PowerPro for a little over a year and am
used to the non-stretch performance. The first bass of the day hit out
at the far end of the cast and when I went to set the hook I nearly
fell over backwards! I normally could put the rod that far back
without the fish flying through the air towards me. With mono it's
hard to tell if the hook is set or not. I'm also usually able to
easily tell the bump of a weed or pad apart from the bump of a fish.
Not so easy with the monofilament. I think I'll put the braid on
pretty soon. I sure miss it.

Oh, I also broke the line on the last cast of the day. It was an
overhead cast and the line broke off at the reel. I have no idea where
the lure went. I also have not dug the end of the line out of the reel
yet.

This is great fun and I'll be back at it tomorrow. Thanks again to all
for the freindly words.

JimC


"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
I've been reading many posts made over the past months regarding bait
cast reels, their pro's and con's, and proper technique. Glad I did.

***Hi Jim, welcome to the world of baitcasting, with all of it's
benefits
and frustrations.

I just treated myself to my first bait cast reel and, based on many of
your suggestions, went with a Shimano Curado. I picked up the Curado
and a BPS Extreme combo for $169. I've been using the Shimano Sahara
spinning reels for some time and like them (one on a BPS Extreme and
one one a BPS Bionic Blade), so it wasn't much of a stretch to go with
this bait cast combo.

***An excellent choice in reels.

For learning purposes I had the reel loaded with 17lb mono. I
positioned all of the plastic "active brakes" to the on position,
grabbed about a 1/2 ounce worth of plastic bait, and headed to the
pond behind my house for some casting practice. Someone should have
had a movie camera running because that's when the comedy began.

***That's the way it always is. There's never a camera around when you
need
one. But cheer up, it gets better, all you need is practice, practice,
practice.

I remembered someone mentioning the cast control knob and that it
should be adjusted such that the lure gently falls to the
ground/water/floor when the spool is released. Ok, I held the rod up,
released the spool, watched the lure fall quickly to the ground, and
then watched my first overrun! Uh, gee, maybe I should have had my
thumb on the spool just in case the cast control was too loose?

***For my clients that are new to baitcasting, I adjust my reels with
the
rod held horizontal, then adjust the cast control so that there's just
barely a loop of loose line when the lure hits the ground.

Score so far: 1 overrun - 0 casts to the water.

Now, anyone who grew up on spincast reels knows that the push button
on the reel locks the line when fully depressed - right? And a bait
cast reel probably does the same thing - right? Wrong! So I push the
clutch bar, swing the rod behind me and discover the lure impacting
the bank behind me. Plus, you know it, of course the spool is spinning
and creating the second overrun.

***LOL, seen that, picked out the results......

Score so far: 2 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

While I have been using nothing but spinning reels for a while, they
don't have the push button/clutch bar, so there has been nothing to
erase my spincast memory of thumb timing. While I now had the "clutch
bar does not lock the spool" code broken, the release timing was whole
other lesson to learn.

***For now, concentrate on just getting the lure out there. Don't worry
about flat trajectories, that will come with time. Make those high,
lobbing
casts for now, they're pretty easy to do.

On my second attempt at making a cast I had my thumb positioned to
depress the clutch bar and instantly contact the spool, thus holding
it from rotating. I made a beautiful overhead cast, letting go of the
spool about the same time in the swing that I would have let go of the
button on the spincast reel - and made resounding thumb on the ground
with the lure just a few feet in front of me! You know what happens
to the spool when the lure stops like that? Right, it keeps going. I
did react with my thumb but was still looking out over the water for a
fraction of a second, expecting to see the lure flying across the
water, and didn't quite react in time.

***It's all in the timing and how you're snapping the rod. I prefer to
teach clients new to baitcasting the overhead cast. I've seen too many
clients that could "only" cast sidearm. I have the chips in my outboard
cowl, console and windshield to prove that. I've also had many lures
come
whizzing dangerously close to me, so stick with the overhead cast, it's
a
little more difficult to learn the timing, but it's FAR safer!

Sore so far: 3 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

Had that cast gone just another foot or so, I would have made the
water! The next cast was about 10 feet longer and I'd finally made the
water.

Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

***It's a biggie, there's no doubt about it.

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

***It's hard to say if you'll get longer casts with a superbraid or not,
you'll get conflicting reports on that. Personally, I've found that I
can
cast further with PowerPro, but I've heard just the opposite as well. A
couple of the things that I do like about braid over mono, especially
for
beginners is that backlashes (for me at least) seem easier to pick out.
A
problem with mono is that in the event of a particularly bad backlash,
the
line is going to be kinked, thus weakening it. This means that if
you're
going to be using that line for fishing, you run the risks of break-offs
much easier. With braid, it doesn't matter if it's kinked or not, it
still
has the same break strength. Just remember, to get line that has a
diameter
similar to what you'd be using with mono. I've found that 30-50 pound
is
pretty easy to get backlashes out.

Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or
overruns?

***As far as the over-runs, read above. Cutting in is only a problem if
the
line is put on the spool too loose to begin with. When I spool new
line, I
run the line through the jaws of a vise that have been padded with a
towel
that's been folded over a couple of times. Then I tighten the jaws
until
I'm just barely able to wind the line on the spool with the drag cranked
down tight. That way, I know the line is on tight and cut-ins won't be
a
problem. Eventually, the line will loosen up on the spool from fishing,
at
that point, I'll tie on a deep diving crankbait and while motoring away,
releasing line until I'm back down to packed line. At that point, I'll
shut
down the motor (otherwise, I'd be trolling and that's illegal on most of
my
waters) and crank the heavily resisting bait back in. Either that or
I'll
tie the end to a fencepost or something similarly solid and back up,
once
down to packed line, I then slowly reel the line back on with a lot of
tension.

Good luck and keep at it.

I appreciate the support and shared insights. I will master this beast
someday. Today I used the Curado fishing for the first time (took M-W
off from work and am making the best of it). I tied on a 4/0 hook.
Slipped on a Senko-type lure of the 5+ inch variety, and targeted all
the good cover I could find. It may be November, but here in FL there
are plenty of bass still up shallow.

It took some practice, but I was able to get the lure out some pretty
good distances. It also flew some really short distances from time to
time. I tried overhead and side casts with about equal success - and
failure. There were some overruns but they were pretty minor. Usually
they were just line becoming too loose on the spool. That makes an
interesting sound when casting. Think I'll call it "line fart". I am
happy that I never really had one of those huge "nests" to pull out.
I'm trying to error on the side of too much thumb and that might have
saved me couple of times.

Using this 17lb mono to train with seems ok except for the stretch.
I've been using nothing but PowerPro for a little over a year and am
used to the non-stretch performance. The first bass of the day hit out
at the far end of the cast and when I went to set the hook I nearly
fell over backwards! I normally could put the rod that far back
without the fish flying through the air towards me. With mono it's
hard to tell if the hook is set or not. I'm also usually able to
easily tell the bump of a weed or pad apart from the bump of a fish.
Not so easy with the monofilament. I think I'll put the braid on
pretty soon. I sure miss it.

Oh, I also broke the line on the last cast of the day. It was an
overhead cast and the line broke off at the reel. I have no idea where
the lure went. I also have not dug the end of the line out of the reel
yet.

This is great fun and I'll be back at it tomorrow. Thanks again to all
for the freindly words.

JimC


"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in message ...
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
I've been reading many posts made over the past months regarding bait
cast reels, their pro's and con's, and proper technique. Glad I did.

***Hi Jim, welcome to the world of baitcasting, with all of it's benefits
and frustrations.

I just treated myself to my first bait cast reel and, based on many of
your suggestions, went with a Shimano Curado. I picked up the Curado
and a BPS Extreme combo for $169. I've been using the Shimano Sahara
spinning reels for some time and like them (one on a BPS Extreme and
one one a BPS Bionic Blade), so it wasn't much of a stretch to go with
this bait cast combo.

***An excellent choice in reels.

For learning purposes I had the reel loaded with 17lb mono. I
positioned all of the plastic "active brakes" to the on position,
grabbed about a 1/2 ounce worth of plastic bait, and headed to the
pond behind my house for some casting practice. Someone should have
had a movie camera running because that's when the comedy began.

***That's the way it always is. There's never a camera around when you need
one. But cheer up, it gets better, all you need is practice, practice,
practice.

I remembered someone mentioning the cast control knob and that it
should be adjusted such that the lure gently falls to the
ground/water/floor when the spool is released. Ok, I held the rod up,
released the spool, watched the lure fall quickly to the ground, and
then watched my first overrun! Uh, gee, maybe I should have had my
thumb on the spool just in case the cast control was too loose?

***For my clients that are new to baitcasting, I adjust my reels with the
rod held horizontal, then adjust the cast control so that there's just
barely a loop of loose line when the lure hits the ground.

Score so far: 1 overrun - 0 casts to the water.

Now, anyone who grew up on spincast reels knows that the push button
on the reel locks the line when fully depressed - right? And a bait
cast reel probably does the same thing - right? Wrong! So I push the
clutch bar, swing the rod behind me and discover the lure impacting
the bank behind me. Plus, you know it, of course the spool is spinning
and creating the second overrun.

***LOL, seen that, picked out the results......

Score so far: 2 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

While I have been using nothing but spinning reels for a while, they
don't have the push button/clutch bar, so there has been nothing to
erase my spincast memory of thumb timing. While I now had the "clutch
bar does not lock the spool" code broken, the release timing was whole
other lesson to learn.

***For now, concentrate on just getting the lure out there. Don't worry
about flat trajectories, that will come with time. Make those high, lobbing
casts for now, they're pretty easy to do.

On my second attempt at making a cast I had my thumb positioned to
depress the clutch bar and instantly contact the spool, thus holding
it from rotating. I made a beautiful overhead cast, letting go of the
spool about the same time in the swing that I would have let go of the
button on the spincast reel - and made resounding thumb on the ground
with the lure just a few feet in front of me! You know what happens
to the spool when the lure stops like that? Right, it keeps going. I
did react with my thumb but was still looking out over the water for a
fraction of a second, expecting to see the lure flying across the
water, and didn't quite react in time.

***It's all in the timing and how you're snapping the rod. I prefer to
teach clients new to baitcasting the overhead cast. I've seen too many
clients that could "only" cast sidearm. I have the chips in my outboard
cowl, console and windshield to prove that. I've also had many lures come
whizzing dangerously close to me, so stick with the overhead cast, it's a
little more difficult to learn the timing, but it's FAR safer!

Sore so far: 3 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

Had that cast gone just another foot or so, I would have made the
water! The next cast was about 10 feet longer and I'd finally made the
water.

Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

***It's a biggie, there's no doubt about it.

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

***It's hard to say if you'll get longer casts with a superbraid or not,
you'll get conflicting reports on that. Personally, I've found that I can
cast further with PowerPro, but I've heard just the opposite as well. A
couple of the things that I do like about braid over mono, especially for
beginners is that backlashes (for me at least) seem easier to pick out. A
problem with mono is that in the event of a particularly bad backlash, the
line is going to be kinked, thus weakening it. This means that if you're
going to be using that line for fishing, you run the risks of break-offs
much easier. With braid, it doesn't matter if it's kinked or not, it still
has the same break strength. Just remember, to get line that has a diameter
similar to what you'd be using with mono. I've found that 30-50 pound is
pretty easy to get backlashes out.

Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or
overruns?

***As far as the over-runs, read above. Cutting in is only a problem if the
line is put on the spool too loose to begin with. When I spool new line, I
run the line through the jaws of a vise that have been padded with a towel
that's been folded over a couple of times. Then I tighten the jaws until
I'm just barely able to wind the line on the spool with the drag cranked
down tight. That way, I know the line is on tight and cut-ins won't be a
problem. Eventually, the line will loosen up on the spool from fishing, at
that point, I'll tie on a deep diving crankbait and while motoring away,
releasing line until I'm back down to packed line. At that point, I'll shut
down the motor (otherwise, I'd be trolling and that's illegal on most of my
waters) and crank the heavily resisting bait back in. Either that or I'll
tie the end to a fencepost or something similarly solid and back up, once
down to packed line, I then slowly reel the line back on with a lot of
tension.

Good luck and keep at it.

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
SNIP
Now, anyone who grew up on spincast reels knows that the push button
on the reel locks the line when fully depressed - right? And a bait
cast reel probably does the same thing - right? Wrong! So I push the
clutch bar, swing the rod behind me and discover the lure impacting
the bank behind me. Plus, you know it, of course the spool is spinning
and creating the second overrun.

Score so far: 2 overruns - 0 casts to the water.

LOL! I hate to laugh, but I've seen it, you're not alone, and you learned
the lesson the best way possible. The other reason I chuckle at this is that
I took a LONG time off from bass fishing, from the time I was about 19 until
the past few years (I am now 36). So...I got some new baitcasters, a couple
complete with a "flipping" switches, where you have to hold down the clutch
the whole time and release it when you are completely finished with the
cast. Needless to say, I was unaware of the functionality of that switch and
tried to cast normally with it first time with the "flipping" switch ON so
when I flicked the wrist and tried to let her fly by releasing the thumb
pressure, the line stopped dead and my lure came back and nearly took an eye
out...not an overrun, but I figured out right quick like what the "flipping"
mode was, and have learned to love it when it is needed.

Fortunately, I'm not totally inept and was making some very good casts
before heading back to the house about an hour later. I only had one
more overrun and caught it in time to make it a small one. The hardest
part to get through my head was how early in the cast you need to
release the spool.

Yup, this timing is critical. Figure I bass fished from the time I can
remember anything until I was 19, and again another 3 or so years recently,
probably well over 15 years total, and I STILL learn things in the back yard
and on the water, all the time. My biggest lesson came in the most
unlikliest of places, in an aisle of a Dicks Sporting Goods. Last year,
about 4 days prior to the Santee-Cooper BASS event, Mike Iaconelli was there
doing an appearance on his way to that event (Im in Raleigh NC) and was
flipping and pitching down the aisle in an amazing manner, hitting his
target EVERY time, no overruns, even looking away and talking while doing it
flawlessy time and time again. So I grew some male accessories and stepped
up and asked, aside from practice, what tips could he share to develop this
talent. Practice was his first tip, something akin to Steve's advice on
spool tension elsewhere in this thread was another, and some physical
demonstration of his wrist positions and actions during the cast were the
rest. (Along with matching the rod stiffness and length to the reel, the
line weight, and the conditions, of course.) So long story short, find
someone who "can" cast well, and watch and learn as they probably can't tell
you how they learned their timing outside of practice and maybe a few
starting and finishing positions with the various types of casts. (Do you
really think casting is that different than a golf swing? I don't. Muscle
memory and repetition are key.)

Just thought I'd share this to ease the frustration of others new to
bait cast reels. For me, it's the lake tomorrow and then, after I've
built my confidence with this monofilament, some better line. I'll bet
some of the super braids will cast further.

Are the braided lines more problematic regarding cutting in or
overruns?


I'm with Steve on this one too. I like Power Pro, and have it on half my
rigs (I have mono on 1 baitcaster and all 3 of my spinning rigs, my other 4
baitcasters are all PP equipped with various weight ratings of the line). It
casts great and cuts in in no worse, IMHO, than any I may ever get when
using mono.

As for distance, I dunno. I was lucky enough to get a Daiwa baitcaster for
my 12th birthday, and have been casting them a long time. Even after my
decade long layoff, it came back pretty fast and I consider myself pretty
good at it, though no where in the league of the touring guys that fish
hundreds of days a year. That said, I can't really tell a distance
difference. Sure, with 30# Power Pro it will cast farther than 30# mono due
to the shear thinness of the braid compared to the rope-like mono at that
weight rating. But when casting 4# mono (for example) compared to the 4#
"sized" braid (12#-15# actual rating likely), they're about the same in my
experience. All I can say, casting distance aside, is that as long as they
make a coated braid, similar to Power Pro, that doesn't "sing" through the
eyelets (like Fireline does), I'll be using it. Its advantages far outweigh
the drawbacks IMHO. Mono and its stretch has its place, and times when it is
warranted and almost required, but my first choice in line anymore is
superlines. And as long as fishing stays a hobby and not an income producer
for me, that'll be what I fish with most.

"SimRacer" wrote in message .com...
(Do you
really think casting is that different than a golf swing? I don't. Muscle
memory and repetition are key.)

Sim, you are so right! Today when I was out on the water and
experimenting with a side arm cast, I used both hands on the rod
(probably violating all bass fishing etiquette) and tried a golf swing
type snap. I found that I really could cast a mile doing that. I am
working on that snap and its timing in overhead too. I'm starting to
get some real nice casts that way. Of course I'm also getting some
short ones and many of the side casts don't go where I planned, but
that just makes the good ones more appreciated.

Thanks,

JimC