The Future of Fly Fishing in America ?

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
...
In article 20041203091002.06685.00000732@mb-
m24.aol.com, irate says...
Ridiculous! The native Americans have more than made up for it *in some
places* with their gambling casinos. You and I owe them nothing.



Bravo! This is a majestic bit of babbling dumb-ass
insanity that Dickie Dean his own self would have been
proud of!

Kevin
He couldn't possibly have been serious, could he?

Got any shiny new nickels?

Wolfgang

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
...
In article 20041203091002.06685.00000732@mb-
m24.aol.com, irate says...
Ridiculous! The native Americans have more than made up for it *in some
places* with their gambling casinos. You and I owe them nothing.



Bravo! This is a majestic bit of babbling dumb-ass
insanity that Dickie Dean his own self would have been
proud of!

Kevin
He couldn't possibly have been serious, could he?

Got any shiny new nickels?

Wolfgang

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Dave Snedeker writes:

I would include the
stealing of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and the stealing of the land of
Mexican Americans in Texas.

*And*, the injuns got screwed out of Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, New
Hampshire, New York, sigh, Pennsylvania, New Jersey (why the hell would
injuns
want NJ?), Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, W. Virginia, big sigh, all the
Carolinas, and Florida, Georgia, Alabamer, Louisianer, Mississippi,
Kentucky,
Tenn......getting tired...... make it easy.... *all* of the U.S., Mexico,
Canada, Central America, South America, whew.....and how can we forget the
Caribbean (?).

Ah, gee, we're all furenors aren't we?

To quote Wolfgang. . . "learn to read."

I spoke specifically of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and lands of Mexican
Americans in Texas. In Oklahoma, land set aside as "Indian Territory" as a
part of treaties compensating Indians removed from elsewhere in the U.S.,
were then thrown open for forcible settlement. These Indians at that point
were citizens of the United States. They had been removed from many of the
States you mention, ON CONDITION THAT THEY WOULD GET LANDS IN OKLAHOMA
("INDIAN TERRITORY").

In Texas, deeds and other instruments of ownership documenting Mexican
American land ownership were systematically ignored and destroyed in land
grabs across that State. The Mexican Americans I am speaking of were not
"foreigners, " they were citizens of the Republic of Texas, and later
citizens of the United States.

In both cases we are not talking about stealing that took place centuries
ago, or stealing of property of an enemy. We are talking about stealing
the property of American citizens. There are many fat cats in both of these
States sitting on stolen lands. I do not think that the government or the
courts will forever prevent the eventual squaring of these accounts.

And I have not even gotten into the stealing of Native American lands by the
U.S. Navy in more recent times, or the stealing of revenues from Indian oil
properties which the U.S. Government refuses to this day to account for.

Dave

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Dave Snedeker writes:

I would include the
stealing of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and the stealing of the land of
Mexican Americans in Texas.

*And*, the injuns got screwed out of Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, New
Hampshire, New York, sigh, Pennsylvania, New Jersey (why the hell would
injuns
want NJ?), Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, W. Virginia, big sigh, all the
Carolinas, and Florida, Georgia, Alabamer, Louisianer, Mississippi,
Kentucky,
Tenn......getting tired...... make it easy.... *all* of the U.S., Mexico,
Canada, Central America, South America, whew.....and how can we forget the
Caribbean (?).

Ah, gee, we're all furenors aren't we?

To quote Wolfgang. . . "learn to read."

I spoke specifically of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and lands of Mexican
Americans in Texas. In Oklahoma, land set aside as "Indian Territory" as a
part of treaties compensating Indians removed from elsewhere in the U.S.,
were then thrown open for forcible settlement. These Indians at that point
were citizens of the United States. They had been removed from many of the
States you mention, ON CONDITION THAT THEY WOULD GET LANDS IN OKLAHOMA
("INDIAN TERRITORY").

In Texas, deeds and other instruments of ownership documenting Mexican
American land ownership were systematically ignored and destroyed in land
grabs across that State. The Mexican Americans I am speaking of were not
"foreigners, " they were citizens of the Republic of Texas, and later
citizens of the United States.

In both cases we are not talking about stealing that took place centuries
ago, or stealing of property of an enemy. We are talking about stealing
the property of American citizens. There are many fat cats in both of these
States sitting on stolen lands. I do not think that the government or the
courts will forever prevent the eventual squaring of these accounts.

And I have not even gotten into the stealing of Native American lands by the
U.S. Navy in more recent times, or the stealing of revenues from Indian oil
properties which the U.S. Government refuses to this day to account for.

Dave

"David Snedeker" wrote in message
...

To quote Wolfgang. . . "learn to read."...

"Ah, we all get there eventually, don't we? "--Wolfgang

Wolfgang
i have.

In article ,
"David Snedeker" wrote:

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Dave Snedeker writes:

I would include the
stealing of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and the stealing of the land of
Mexican Americans in Texas.

*And*, the injuns got screwed out of Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, New
Hampshire, New York, sigh, Pennsylvania, New Jersey (why the hell would
injuns
want NJ?), Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, W. Virginia, big sigh, all the
Carolinas, and Florida, Georgia, Alabamer, Louisianer, Mississippi,
Kentucky,
Tenn......getting tired...... make it easy.... *all* of the U.S., Mexico,
Canada, Central America, South America, whew.....and how can we forget the
Caribbean (?).

Ah, gee, we're all furenors aren't we?

To quote Wolfgang. . . "learn to read."

I spoke specifically of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and lands of Mexican
Americans in Texas. In Oklahoma, land set aside as "Indian Territory" as a
part of treaties compensating Indians removed from elsewhere in the U.S.,
were then thrown open for forcible settlement. These Indians at that point
were citizens of the United States. They had been removed from many of the
States you mention, ON CONDITION THAT THEY WOULD GET LANDS IN OKLAHOMA
("INDIAN TERRITORY").

In Texas, deeds and other instruments of ownership documenting Mexican
American land ownership were systematically ignored and destroyed in land
grabs across that State. The Mexican Americans I am speaking of were not
"foreigners, " they were citizens of the Republic of Texas, and later
citizens of the United States.

In both cases we are not talking about stealing that took place centuries
ago, or stealing of property of an enemy. We are talking about stealing
the property of American citizens. There are many fat cats in both of these
States sitting on stolen lands. I do not think that the government or the
courts will forever prevent the eventual squaring of these accounts.

And I have not even gotten into the stealing of Native American lands by the
U.S. Navy in more recent times, or the stealing of revenues from Indian oil
properties which the U.S. Government refuses to this day to account for.

Dave




This article in the Minnesota Conservation Volunteer is an interesting
read. It covers both public lands and also land given to the Native
Americans then taken from them so the timber companies could log it off.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer...hippewanf.html

Dave in Minnesota

"David Snedeker" wrote in message
...

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Dave Snedeker writes:

I would include the
stealing of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and the stealing of the land of
Mexican Americans in Texas.

*And*, the injuns got screwed out of Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, New
Hampshire, New York, sigh, Pennsylvania, New Jersey (why the hell would
injuns
want NJ?), Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, W. Virginia, big sigh, all the
Carolinas, and Florida, Georgia, Alabamer, Louisianer, Mississippi,
Kentucky,
Tenn......getting tired...... make it easy.... *all* of the U.S.,
Mexico,
Canada, Central America, South America, whew.....and how can we forget
the
Caribbean (?).

Ah, gee, we're all furenors aren't we?

To quote Wolfgang. . . "learn to read."

I spoke specifically of Indian lands in Oklahoma, and lands of Mexican
Americans in Texas. In Oklahoma, land set aside as "Indian Territory" as a
part of treaties compensating Indians removed from elsewhere in the U.S.,
were then thrown open for forcible settlement. These Indians at that point
were citizens of the United States. They had been removed from many of the
States you mention, ON CONDITION THAT THEY WOULD GET LANDS IN OKLAHOMA
("INDIAN TERRITORY").

In Texas, deeds and other instruments of ownership documenting Mexican
American land ownership were systematically ignored and destroyed in land
grabs across that State. The Mexican Americans I am speaking of were not
"foreigners, " they were citizens of the Republic of Texas, and later
citizens of the United States.

In both cases we are not talking about stealing that took place centuries
ago, or stealing of property of an enemy. We are talking about stealing
the property of American citizens. There are many fat cats in both of
these
States sitting on stolen lands. I do not think that the government or the
courts will forever prevent the eventual squaring of these accounts.

And I have not even gotten into the stealing of Native American lands by
the
U.S. Navy in more recent times, or the stealing of revenues from Indian
oil
properties which the U.S. Government refuses to this day to account for.

Dave
Some of the large ranchos in California "purchased" from the Spanish by
Americans include; Fort Ord, Hunter Liggett, The "Farm" home of Stanford
university, the ranch around Herst Castle and others.
Part of the problem was in the Spanish surveying methods. Property
boundrys were recorded in terms such as "five day ride north of the three
oak trees where the two streams meet"

"Dave Jackson" wrote in message
...
This article in the Minnesota Conservation Volunteer is an interesting
read. It covers both public lands and also land given to the Native
Americans then taken from them so the timber companies could log it off.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer...hippewanf.html

Dave in Minnesota

Thanks for another specific example of the thievery. Knowing and preserving
the real history of the U.S. is a constant struggle against those who
substitute fantasy, ideology, and self-serving myth for verifiable history.

One of the first acts of demigods is to attempt to control information and
block access to first hand accounts and documentation of events. Which is
exactly what Shrub has done for virtually all the official records of his
father's and Raygun's illegal dealings with the Iranian Ayatollahs and the
murder squads funded with illegal arms sales that killed tens of thousands
of Indians (and others) in Central America.

Dave

But this is a very socialist argument: no-one seems to feel that you
should be able to march into any orchard and pick apples for free, or
into any field and make off with the horses that are grazing there
without paying. Why should rivers not be privately owned, as land is?
And why should the river-owner not charge people to take fish out of
his river the way a farmer would charge them to take apples out of his
trees?

1. The farmer bought and planted the trees on land he acquired.
2. The farmer bought and/or raised the horses.
3. The person who bought a property along a river in many cases
did so without buying ownership of the river.
4. The person who bought a property along a river in many cases
did so within a framework of laws that specifically gave the
public the right to use the river.

Plus ---- one does not return the apple to the tree, like most fishermen
release their catch to the river.