OT Stolen from Rec.Backcountry

"rw" wrote in message
...
Kevin Vang wrote:

It's beyond me how Republicans can use words like "integrity" and
"responsibility" anymore except as a bitter ironic joke.

The really scary part is that they believe their own bull****.

Some of them do. The rest simply put party loyalty above human
decency.

Wolfgang

On 06 Dec 2004 13:13:57 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:


No. Actually it was one wounded VC teenager who was fleeing for his life and
Kerry shot him in the back and received a SS.


It's statements like this that show that with all your talk
of "honor", you come up very short in that department.

Greg P. writes:

It's statements like this that show that with all your talk
of "honor", you come up very short in that department.

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns the next day
with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a phony. And YOU, of all
people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You wouldn't know honor if it bit you
in your red ass.

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Greg P. writes:

It's statements like this that show that with all your talk
of "honor", you come up very short in that department.

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day
with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a phony. And
YOU, of all
people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You wouldn't know honor if
it bit you
in your red ass.

Then too, I know I'm not the only one here who has seen.....live and
in person.....our great and honorable pacifist chief fly into a rage
over um.......hm......what was it? The best route between
Massachusetts and western North Carolina?

Wolfgang

Dave LaCourse wrote:

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day
with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a phony. And
YOU, of all
people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You wouldn't know honor if it
bit you
in your red ass.

Dave:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

My retired CPO Father disagrees significantly with your viewpoint. And
he wasn't there either. So you being a retired CPO does not make you
all knowing of this issue nor does it my father. I would tend to put
more stock in what his immediate shipmates say than what others state
or postulate but I was not there and did not live the military life as
stated in many previous posts.

Whatever you believe about the man it does not matter, he didnt' win
the election. I personally think you're wrong and approaching libel
with your disdain for Kerry. You think otherwise. But if those wounds
were self inflicted, it would have come up long before this past
election.

While I have the same disdain for W that you have for Kerry,
unfortunately his campaign strategy was better and he won the election,
so we've got to live with it.

But I curious, if as you state, Kerry doesn't deserve a purple heart,
what about "friendly fire" deaths and wounds? Are those wounded and
dead military members any more or less deserving of medals and
acknowledgement because they were wounded as the result of an accident?
Do we tell the families that the boys and girls shouldn't have been
there because our side was shooting there? While I'm told there is
sometimes military discipline for repeated or negligent instances, we
don't hear too often of the folks making the mistaken shots getting
court martialed and sentenced for homicide?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Wayne Knight writes:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

My retired CPO Father disagrees significantly with your viewpoint. And
he wasn't there either. So you being a retired CPO does not make you
all knowing of this issue nor does it my father. I would tend to put
more stock in what his immediate shipmates say than what others state
or postulate but I was not there and did not live the military life as
stated in many previous posts.
'
Most vets I know share my views. It isn';t so much what he did in Nam, but
what he did when he returned. None of that was honorable. He threw away his
medals and then lied about his brothers who were still fighting in Nam. And
all for what -- political recognition.

Whatever you believe about the man it does not matter, he didnt' win
the election. I personally think you're wrong and approaching libel
with your disdain for Kerry. You think otherwise. But if those wounds
were self inflicted,

No "IF about it, Wayne. His own men have said there was no enemy contact when
he got his first scratch. None. NO enemy contact. He fired a grenade
launcher and it exploded near enough to him for him to pick up a very small
pice of its shrapnel. Even the treating doctor said it was US shrapnel. And,
you get rice removed from your ass only because you threw a grenade into the
rice pile and didn't get away quick enough.

it would have come up long before this past
election.


It did. In his Senate races. The Boston Globe did an expose about your boy,
including his generousity toward others less fortunate than he, and receiving
free apartments and cars from Boston businessmen.

While I have the same disdain for W that you have for Kerry,
unfortunately his campaign strategy was better and he won the election,
so we've got to live with it.

His campaign strategy was based on lies from day one. Given that 70% (number
from recent press articles) of those that voted for him did so ONLY because
they were voting against Bush, that leaves him with a very pathetically small
league of followers.

But I curious, if as you state, Kerry doesn't deserve a purple heart,
what about "friendly fire" deaths and wounds?

Apples and oranges. Self inflicted wounds do not count. I believe friendly
fire wounds would because you are engaging the enemy and mistakes are made. It
is not the fact that he received self inflicted wounds (unintentionally), but
the fact that he tried to take advantage of it. It says much about his
character.

Are those wounded and
dead military members any more or less deserving of medals and
acknowledgement because they were wounded as the result of an accident?

No.

Do we tell the families that the boys and girls shouldn't have been
there because our side was shooting there? While I'm told there is
sometimes military discipline for repeated or negligent instances, we
don't hear too often of the folks making the mistaken shots getting
court martialed and sentenced for homicide?
Inquiring minds want to know.

I would like to know also. But none of your last remarks apply to Kerry. If
he received superficial self-inflicted wounds, he shouldn't have tried to get
a PH for them. Getting a few grains of rice removed from you buttocks is not a
combat wound, especially when you fired the grenade. People are killed
accidentially in war. A neighbor's USMC son was killed in a helicopter
accident. There was no PH.

More than 100 pages of Kerry's military records have never been released. He
refused to have them released. On the one item that he did release, his
discharge, the date is stamped long after he got out, and states he got a
discharge after a "review by a board of officers". Uh, it don't work that way.
A board of officers has nothing to do with your discharge, and it is dated at
the time of your discharge, not two years later.

Read, Ken, read. Few of those that served with him backed up his version. And
others in boats with him on patrol didn't see the stuff that he "saw". Why
won't he release the remaining 100 pages of his military records, including a
*valid* discharge, not one reviews by a board of officers and signed by Jimmy
Carter two years after his discharge.

Like I said, get the 7 iron out of your eyesight and perhaps you'll be able to
see better.

Wayne Knight wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a
phony. And YOU, of all people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You
wouldn't know honor if it bit you in your red ass.

Dave:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

Richie can speak for himself, but Tim is on Tim's side. ;-) I'm tired
of all the vitriol from either/both sides of the political aisle, and
probably just worn down from a pretty intense political year. The way I
see it, and IMHO, most of roff is a *LOT* closer to that aisle than
distanced from it, with the exception of a few. I'd like to think (and I
could be WAY wrong) that I would enjoy visiting with just about anyone
here and discussing life, love, music, fishing, and whatever is in
between (and that doesn't leave much) without becoming a screaming
maniac for a political cause, or being screamed at because of my views.
My slant on life comes from what influenced me over many years, and
there's not to much anyone else can do to change that. Realizing this, I
don't waste much time talking politics and expecting to change OP's
views. When I see people here coming off the rails over something as
unimportant as whether or not a failed presidential candidate served
honorably in the military, it gives me pause to consider the motive. Is
there any?

But, hey, if it makes you happy then carry on.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Wayne Knight wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:

One problem, Mr. Socialist. What I said is true. He then returns
the next day with a camera and "records" his exploits. The man is a
phony. And YOU, of all people, shouldn't even SPEAK of honor. You
wouldn't know honor if it bit you in your red ass.

Dave:

Tim and Richie said it best. And they're on your side.

Richie can speak for himself, but Tim is on Tim's side. ;-) I'm tired
of all the vitriol from either/both sides of the political aisle, and
probably just worn down from a pretty intense political year. The way I
see it, and IMHO, most of roff is a *LOT* closer to that aisle than
distanced from it, with the exception of a few. I'd like to think (and I
could be WAY wrong) that I would enjoy visiting with just about anyone
here and discussing life, love, music, fishing, and whatever is in
between (and that doesn't leave much) without becoming a screaming
maniac for a political cause, or being screamed at because of my views.
My slant on life comes from what influenced me over many years, and
there's not to much anyone else can do to change that. Realizing this, I
don't waste much time talking politics and expecting to change OP's
views. When I see people here coming off the rails over something as
unimportant as whether or not a failed presidential candidate served
honorably in the military, it gives me pause to consider the motive. Is
there any?

But, hey, if it makes you happy then carry on.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Read, Ken, read. Few of those that served with him backed up his version.

I don't know what in the hell you're reading, but whatever it is,
it's demonstrably false.

Like I said, get the 7 iron out of your eyesight and perhaps you'll be able to
see better.

I can see and read just fine and I make it a discipline to read
opposing views and opinions like those in The National Review and
The Weekly Standard regularly. The lying crap you've been spreading
around here does not come from reputable sources and only a fool
would believe that nonsense or state it as fact in a public forum.

--
Ken Fortenberry