Fly Floatant

From: "Larry L"

BUT, that fly does NOT stay dry nearly as well as with Frog's Fanny.

I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season, and see no
difference in performance betewwen the two.Indeed, a desiccant absorbs water
by definition and any left on the fly (
that white look) would quickly attract water and sink the fly. That is
exactly what I find happens with fumed silica. But NOT what I find with FF,

I notice that both leave a white powdery residue on the fly, and several FF
users commented on this in previous posts here. I believe that the first false
cast removes most of the residue.

with it I seldom have a sinking fly until the next fish slimes it.

Same experience here with both, and with the exception of CDC and ostrich herl,
a fly treated with Aab -O- Sil or FF need only be "cleaned" by slapping it on
the water and dried by false casting to restore it to good floating condition.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

On 21 Aug 2004 21:28:07 GMT, ojunk (George Adams)
wrote:



I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season...

WHICH Cab-O-Sil? Do you have the container? What does it say?

"George Adams" wrote

I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season, and see no
difference in performance betewwen the two.

I'd be interested in very specific ordering info ... where, part number,
listed additives, etc

I don't doubt that what you and Willi have works as well as FF, but I know
that just "fumed silica" isn't enough information to guarantee satisfaction

I'd like to try exactly what you are using and bet I'd be pleased.

"George Adams" wrote

I have used FF and Cab -o- Sil side by side all this season, and see no
difference in performance betewwen the two.

I'd be interested in very specific ordering info ... where, part number,
listed additives, etc

I don't doubt that what you and Willi have works as well as FF, but I know
that just "fumed silica" isn't enough information to guarantee satisfaction

I'd like to try exactly what you are using and bet I'd be pleased.

"Larry L" wrote:
I'm not convinced that fumed silica, as sold for thickening resins, IS the
same as Frog's Fanny. I bought some from West Marine ( not "cab-o-sil"
brand, but fumed silica sold for same market) and it DOES look just like
Frog's Fanny, and DOES dry a fly just like Frog's Fanny.

BUT, that fly does NOT stay dry nearly as well as with Frog's Fanny.
Someone here on ROFF has said that Frog's Fanny (hereafter referred to as
FF
is "just a desiccant, not a fly floatant" That is not consistent
with
my experience OR the FF label/marketing packaging which clearly promotes
FF's ability to repel water and thus trap air around the fly for nymphing
use.

I heartily agree. Willi gave me a zip-lock full of silica gel (having
that laying around the house raised a few eyebrows), and although it works
quite well, it isn't the same as real FF, per Larry's observations.

George Adams wrote:


Cab-o-Sil. Fumed silica. Available from aircraft and boat supply houses. Got
mine from an outfit called Spruce Aircraft, IIRC.
Cost is about 12 bucks a gallon, which should be a lifetime supply.

As rw said, Albolene is available at nearly all drug stores for about 12 bucks
for a large jar, so for 25 bucks you can outfit yourself with a lifetime supply
of floatants.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Great info and thanks.

Albolene ? who'd a thunk it. This is great for me and no problem to
get. My wife is a Pharmacy Tech. and even gets a discount, and I don't
even have to get off my butt to get it myself, so...win / win I will
surely give it a try.
Now the Cab-o-Sil is not quite so easy to get but I will give it a try
as well. Found some online for $5.20 for 1 gal. The Cab-o-Sil is a
powder correct? Does it protect againt the water saturating the fly or
does it just dry out the flies fibers (or both)

From: (Goat)

Now the Cab-o-Sil is not quite so easy to get but I will give it a try
as well. Found some online for $5.20 for 1 gal. The Cab-o-Sil is a
powder correct? Does it protect againt the water saturating the fly or
does it just dry out the flies fibers (or both)

There may be more than one type of Cab -o- Sil. (see Larry L's posts on this
thread) The one I purchased was from Spruce Aircraft, and I think it was more
expensive, but I might be including shipping charges. My memory ain't what it
used to was, and I discarded all the info I had long ago.

In my experience, it dries out the fibers, and also acts as a floatant, but
it's main advantage is as a super dessicant that will dry out delicate fibers
like CDC and ostrich herl. The trick is to work it into the fibers completely
with a brush. You may want to consider purchasing one container of FF to get
the supplied brush.

As rw and Dave L mentioned, you may also need a suitable container for the
Albolene. It wouldn't hurt to buy a bottle of Gink and refill it as needed. As
an aside, I was just looking at a Fly Fisherman magazine from the early
seventies that showed Gink being sold in a small wide mouth jar.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
From: (Goat)

Now the Cab-o-Sil is not quite so easy to get but I will give it a try
as well. Found some online for $5.20 for 1 gal. The Cab-o-Sil is a
powder correct? Does it protect againt the water saturating the fly or
does it just dry out the flies fibers (or both)

There may be more than one type of Cab -o- Sil. (see Larry L's posts on
this
thread) The one I purchased was from Spruce Aircraft, and I think it was
more
expensive, but I might be including shipping charges. My memory ain't what
it
used to was, and I discarded all the info I had long ago.

In my experience, it dries out the fibers, and also acts as a floatant,
but
it's main advantage is as a super dessicant that will dry out delicate
fibers
like CDC and ostrich herl. The trick is to work it into the fibers
completely
with a brush. You may want to consider purchasing one container of FF to
get
the supplied brush.
...

I just did a little experiment.

I put about half an ounce of water in a glass pinch bowl and then added a
pinch of Frog's Fanny. The FF floated in clumps of various small sizes.
After stirring vigorously for a couple of minutes, all of the FF was still
floating. Twenty minutes later, all of it is still floating.....or, at
least apparently so. None is visible below the surface. Without chemical
analysis, it's impossible to tell whether or not any has dissolved.......but
I don't think it has. What does this mean? Well, it looks like FF is not a
desiccant, at least in the sense that silica gel or clay (two of the most
widely used desiccants) are. Both clay and silica gel work by absorption.
They are both porous and hydrophilic. That is to say, they readily form
loose bonds with water molecules and have a large available surface area
with which to form many such bonds......they hold a LOT of water. Drop
either of them in water and, even if ground exceedingly fine (like FF) and
they will sink because both are heavier than water AND their hydrophilic
character allows them, even in very small pieces, to break the surface
tension......they sink

FF seems to work by aDsorption, as opposed to aBsorption. Adsorption is
purely a surface phenomenon. FF works because water clings to the surface
and then is brushed off with the excess FF. Drop a saturated fly in a
bottle of FF and you will pull out a saturated fly covered in FF.

Bottom line.......Frog's Fanny is not a desiccant.....nor, it seems, exactly
a floatant either. Or, at least not a floatant like most that we are
familiar with. It doesn't appear to absorb water like desiccants. Thus,
anything that is thoroughly coated with it won't absorb either. But it
doesn't cling to fly tying materials like all of the hydrocarbon based
floatant materials we're used to......and thus, it doesn't last long either.

I did another experiment. I don't know what "fumed" silica is, but I DO
know what silica is. Silica is silicon dioxide.....two oxygen atoms bonded
(very tightly) to one silicon atom. Silicon dioxide is THE most common
substance in the Earth's crust (remember OSiAlFeCaNaKMg?)....rock, sand,
quartz. Silicon dioxide won't burn.....burning is combustion, is
oxidation.....the silicon in silicon dioxide is already as oxidized as it's
ever going to get. I put a liberal shake of FF on a piece of paper towel,
and set fire to the paper. The FF survived, unscathed. Whatever this stuff
is, one simple test confirms that it COULD be silica.

Is there a mineralogist in the house?

Wolfgang
ain't science fun?

Another possiblilty is "Hydostop". this is a liquid that you immerse your
fly in for 5 minutes, and let it dy overnight. You can make your own by
dissolving some candle wax in lighter fluid. It doesn't take much was. If
you get too much, the fly will be sticky. Just add move lighter fluid to
thin

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"Goat" wrote in message
...
The area I live in does not have a flyshop within an hour drive. After
gas or shipping charges from mail order (not to mention the wait)
floatant ends up costing twice as much, but
more than that it is just becoming a pain in the butt.
This leads me to my question.
Does anybody know how I can make my own floatant? Something I can
pick-up at the hardware store or grocery store prehaps?
What did the "old timers" use as floatant in the days before LL Bean?

Thanks

(new to group, so if this is a beaten horse..... Sorry)

Buy a little bottle of silicone water-proofer made for shoes.
Cavalier' is one brand name, available at Walmart. When you finish
tying a batch of dry flies, dip them in it, or paint them with it
using a small brush, and let them dry overnight.

You don't have to mess around with "greasy kid stuff" while on the
stream.

Alternative: Buy a can of Thompson Water seal. Do the above.

vince