O.T. a little - "Worms On A Hook Don't Suffer?"

Steve, you did a good job of explaining your views. I would like to
go one farther.

My grandson's teacher when he was 7/8 years old was teaching her
students that catching fish on a hook was painful to them. Even
spouted and handed out Peta based info on it. It took me two years of
careful explaining about the difference between bad science that
explains only what the person wants it to and good science that looks
at all facets and finds explinations through peer reviewed research.

Just think about it for a minute. Your kids believe everything
teachers say because we stress how important it is to get a good
education and learn as much as possible. Now let a Peta person turn
your childs view to theirs and before you know it, especially if you
do not hunt or fish, and you have an "anti" person aligning with Peta
or some such other group.

Don't ever underestimate the anti's. they are well orginized and well
funded. Our best ammo against them is to take a kid fishing and
explain everything to them correctly. If your kids are grown or you
do not have any, pick a different neighbor kid every two weeks or so
over the summer and teach them how to fish. It could go a long way to
help save your sport!!!

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 09:39:52 -0600, "Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers"
sent into the ether:


"Joshuall" wrote in message
...
No no no .... here's tha real deal upfront and straight.

For years "experts" have been telling us if we cut the line when we gut
hook a fish the hook will rust out in a few days or weeks or months.
Remember that mularky? Now we all know that's a load of crap and studies
proved it. But it made us all feel better about one of the simple downside
risks to fishing e.g. a few fish will pass on to the big pond in the sky.

Now some study someplace by some other "expert" has come up with another
theory. Just because an animals brain is small doesn't mean he can't feel
pain. Who says so ? Anybody ask him? Throw any living creature's ass ina
boiling pot of water or stick a spear through it several times and tell
them it dont hurt ! Baloney. This is just a matter of common sense not
science. Remember boys . . . science brought us the famous "The Earth's
Flat so beware of how far from Rome you plan your vacation" And . . ."Sun
. .. we don't need no stinkin Sun...WE'RE the center of the universe" Who
needs this kind of nonsense to overt any guilt trip or ward off any fear
of Peta ?

***It's not the size of the brain, it's the development of said brain as
well as how developed the central nervous system is. In the case of fish
and worms, the developement just isn't there. This has been proven in
several studies. I'll have to see if I can find them. In my case, I don't
need a study to ward off PETA ramblings.


Speaking of Peta. Well it's obvious they're a bunch of radical block
heads who will have as much effect on our sport as a fly on a cows ass
(and remember cows don't swat at every one of them that lands there)
Again common sense . . . How much revenue is generated by this industry in
the course of a year (just in this country)? Over a Billion a year in
Illinois alone and we're not anywhere near the top of that list. How many
jobs depend on the sport fishing industry. . . think about it. Boats,
tackle , tourism etc etc. Does anyone really think congress or any other
state legislature will give a white rats butt if a skewered worm can feel
it ? Just a bunch of hooey in my book. Peta is just the cause de jour as
far as I'm concerned and hardly worth the taps on these keyes when it
comes to the issue of sports fishing.

***Unfortunately, I'll have to disagree with you there. It's not just a
matter of revenue generated, it's political popularity. There's a lot of
anglers and hunters for certain, but then again, there's even more that
don't fish or hunt. It's those people that PETA are appealing to, the ones
that either don't fish/hunt or are ambivilent to the activity. If PETA can
use emotional response, whether there's any sound, scientific or rational
reasoning to sway people, they certainly will. If this emotional response
can bring those around to their cause (and that happens with alarming
frequency), then those are lost to fishing/hunting. And those people vote.
So, if a politician wants votes, he/she is going to attempt to appeal to the
largest voting block. That in turn translates to having a direct impact on
OUR activities.

A classic case in point (while off topic somewhat) is the spring black bear
hunt in Ontario Canada. The Spring Black Bear Hunt was a very popular
activity in Ontario, both with residents and with visiting hunters. It was
a great source of income for many Canadians and a great source of revenue
for the Province of Ontario. The figure that I heard was in excess of 30
million dollars each and every spring.

There was no sound biological or game management rational to stop the spring
bear hunt. Yet, a group of people that objected to that spring hunt put
enough political pressure on the "powers that be" to cancel the hunt. So,
even though Canadian wildlife biologists said that there were sufficient
numbers of bears to continue the hunt, that there was potential for harm to
the resources, that there would be increased human/bear conflicts, that many
would suffer from the consequences of eliminating the spring hunt, through
lost revenue and jobs, the "bunny huggers" got their way and there is no
longer any spring bear hunting in Ontario.

Now, several years after the ban, the consequences are being realized.
Black bear populations in Ontario are at record highs, human/bear
interactions and complaints are too at a record high. Research has found
that cub mortality is increasing due to male bears killing cubs, more cubs
are killed every spring from bears than from excited hunters!
Resorts/lodges/outfitters have gone out of business directly due to lost
spring revenue and hunters that used to come to Ontario every spring are
either not coming at all or have switched their base of operations to
Alberta or Manitoba where spring hunts are still a reality. Business loss
has been noted at motels, hotels, gas stations, grocery stores and to the
Fish & Wildlife agency due to lost license sales.

Even though all of this is documented, the bear hunt has not been reinstated
because the anti's still hold a large voting block.

So, don't think that just because fishing is big business, it will be left
alone. There are far too many examples existing today that prove otherwise.
Emotions and votes still rule!


Causing pain is a downside of the sport. Sometimes fish get foul hooked,
sometimes anglers get hooked, sometimes people fall out of their boats.
The question is does the downside outweigh the upside and I'm bettin all
of us here are gonna say no. So. . .
fish with lures, don't foul hook and stay away from seafood dammit. g

***You don't have a problem with that, but what about someone that is
sitting on the fence relating to fishing? I don't know of any sane
individual that likes to deliberately inflict pain. Someone that isn't sure
about fishing might become aligned against it if they think that it causes
pain, after all, who wants to inflict pain for fun?

Whenever I'm talking to someone that questions me as an angler, I always
make sure to, in a nice fashion, explain to these misguided individuals that
because a fish's brain/nervous system is not sufficiently developed, that
the reaction that a fish gives to being hooked is not pain, but reacting to
the tethering effect of being attached to a line.

We all have to be active spokesmen and advocates of our sport. Remember
that famous saying, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large
groups." Never before in history has this been more true.


Remove the x for e-mail reply
www.outdoorfrontiers.com
www.SecretWeaponLures.com

Joe Haubenreich wrote:
a whole bunch of stuff about the 'logic' that drives the animal
rights movement.

Joe,

I make most my living stringing words together in a manner designed to
illuminate and illustrate a given topic. Toward that end I read a lot of
what others write in the non-fiction, educational, reportorial and
editorial disciplines. Rarely have I run across anything as succinct,
well constructed, accurate and illustrative as your words here.

KUDOS!

My problem in the whole PETA, environmental thing, is that I have
trouble finding any middle ground to stand on. I was involved in a land
zoning dispute one time in California. Seems a group had decided that
there was a "vernal pool" on the land, and wanted it preserved. Now I
know what a vernal pool is...I also know what a "mud hole" is....this
was a mud hole! Of course they are one in the same depending on what
ground you elect to stand on.

The vernal pool defenders won out, and my clients had a mud hole in the
middle of their property that was protected by ordinance! But every
spring when the county sprayed for mosquitoes, they sprayed that mud
hole...killing any "species" that the vernal pool ordinance was designed
to protect.

After years of doing battle, the owners were finally allowed to grade
the property and build on it...eliminating the sacred, mosquitoe
infested mud hole!

Too much knowledge in the wrong "brains" is a dangerous thing!

JK

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 18:18:35 -0500, RichZ
wrote:

I make most my living stringing words together in a manner designed to
illuminate and illustrate a given topic. Toward that end I read a lot of
what others write in the non-fiction, educational, reportorial and
editorial disciplines. Rarely have I run across anything as succinct,
well constructed, accurate and illustrative as your words here.

As an Emeritus Professor of Literature and Composition, I second that
emotion!
Guy A
Ripley, TN

Thanks for the Bravo Zulu, Rich. High praise, indeed.

Joe

"RichZ" wrote in message
...
Joe Haubenreich wrote:
a whole bunch of stuff about the 'logic' that drives the animal
rights movement.

Joe,

I make most my living stringing words together in a manner designed to
illuminate and illustrate a given topic. Toward that end I read a lot of
what others write in the non-fiction, educational, reportorial and
editorial disciplines. Rarely have I run across anything as succinct,
well constructed, accurate and illustrative as your words here.

KUDOS!

Worms wiggle cause they hurt.

--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear

Joshuall wrote:
Worms wiggle cause they hurt.

Worms wiggle on the hook out of extreme pleasure.
Common sense. You may have noticed that when you have started the hook
through them, that they curl themselves around the hook in a tight
embrace. Don't deny them this pleasure.

And weebils wobble but they don't fall down.
Arrgh, I think Josh's cabin fever virus has infected me through my PC. ;-)
Joe Z.


"Joshuall" wrote in message
...
Worms wiggle cause they hurt.

--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear

Joshuall wrote:
Worms wiggle cause they hurt.

They never hurt me when they wiggled. But I have stuck a hook in my
finger while putting them on the hook, and that didn't feel too good.

Reminds me of a class I taught - 7th grade life science. I had two
beakers, one full of water and one full of alcohol. To show the dangers
of alcohol I dropped a live earthworm in each.

The worm in the water wiggled and moved around. The one in the alcohol
stiffened and never moved.

I asked the class what they could learn from this. One boy in the back
raised his hand and said:

"If you drink enough liquor, you won't get worms."

loma . . . did ya pass em Ronnie ?

--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear