Makah Tribe demolishing Wild Stocks

Wolfgang wrote:

Sure, sure, it's easy for you to be smug......you with your oh so immaculate
pedigree and your fancy city ways. Well, let me tell you, Bub, when my
family settled this land back in '53 there was nothing here but a bunch of
indolent Snedekers who never did a goddamn thing but invent daylight, food,
water, the cosmos, international banking and the klystron. Hell YES, we
through their asses out!

Stupid.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"VibraJet" wrote:

"JR" wrote...


Certainly grossly exceeding the allotment should be punished, if
possible.



As I understand it, the Makah had a "season" in which they could fish,
and
the length of the season was determined to be about the length of time
they
would need to catch 500 fish. I think - but don't know for sure -
that the
tribe knew they were expected to be able to catch 500 fish in that
time. If
that's the case, then it appears they intentionally pulled a fast one.

What will happen now is, the seasons for other fisheries will be
adjusted to
compensate for the huge unexpected Makah catch; the overall yearly
catch
will remain what it was going to be, everybody else gets to catch fewer
fish.

Ironically, the name "Makah" means "generous with food". I don't know
what
their situation is out there, but I'm pretty sure their economy is
based on
fishing and whaling. So that big salmon catch might be pretty
important to
them. It's a good bet none of it will go to waste.

Way I see it, every time the Ndn's win one, everybody makes a big
stink. If
I was out there, I'd go to Neah Bay, look for a restaurant, and order
the
salmon. Ain't no point in getting all urinated over a fish.

Timothy Juvenal


Given what you gleaned from that info, your position makes sense, but
when you realize that the salmon taken were immature fish, 4 to 7
pounds, instead of the desirable mature fish that run from 15 to 40
pounds. The Makah have taken 100,000 pounds of fish instead of 400,000
pounds, and the smaller fish get a lower price per pound than the
bigger fish. The Makah didn't "win one", they screwed themselves as
well as the rest of the tribes on the west coast.

The problem is that it's unlikely that the government and the tribes
will agree to forgo fishing for the rest of the year.

Chas
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JR wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
"JR" wrote in message
...

...I'd be more than happy to eat any restaurant salmon supplied by
tribes
exercising their lawful treaty rights.

Now, I ask you, what could possibly be funnier than listening to a
white boy
in North America bleating about adherence to treaties?

Wolfgang
seriously.......you guys crack me up!

My assumption was that the Indian caught salmon on the Hoh *were*
caught
in adherence to treaty. No bleating involved.


In fact, the treaty as interpreted by the Bolt Decision back in 1974 or
so says they should not have been netting these fish at all.
Considering the weather conditions and the time of year, they
specifically targeted a threatened run of wild fish. They compounded
this by streatching the nets across the entire river and then hearding
the fish into the nets with their power boats.

Chas
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Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Chas Wade wrote:
The Makah Indian Tribe on the Olympic Peninsula has harvested 20,000
chinook salmon, the entire indian allotment for the 2005 year.
There
is little doubt that this crime will go unpunnished, and we'll loose
more of this endangered run. Details he ...

I don't see any details, all I see is a bunch of white boys
whining.

You claim a crime has been committed. Details please. Which
Washington state or federal laws have been broken, what treaty
has been broken ?


Well, Ken, the laws are the regulations produced by the NMFS, the
tribes, and the Washington State Fish and Game department. The federal
authority for these dates back to the infamous Bolt Decision from
around 1974 when judge Bolt decided that the tribes treaty entitled
them to half the fish that should be harvested. The roughly 40,000
fish commercial allotment for Chinook comes from the combined efforts
of the feds, the states, and the tribes.

Chas
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"rw" wrote in message
...

Stupid.

Flatterer.

Wolfgang
who, prior to his tenure here, never thought he would one day have his own
coterie of acolytes.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 02:32:30 -0600, Chas Wade
wrote:

The Makah didn't "win one", they screwed themselves as
well as the rest of the tribes on the west coast.

AH-HA!! Well, the story is such obvious horse****. The wonderful, proud, and
noble Native American people are a noble, proud, and wonderful people. Are you
seriously trying to get people (at least those not of the proud, wonderful, and
noble bunch) to believe that such noble, wonderful and proud people would or
could EVER do such a thing to fellow proud, noble and wonderful people. If any
proud, nobl...oh **** it - Indians got screwed, some bunch of the white man
would HAVE to be behind it...of course, Bush would be to blame...and
Limbaugh...and, and...well, Karl Rove or Dick Cheney, too, I'm sure...and a
least one gay male prostitute...and Wal-Mart...and the oil companies - yes, ALL
of them, dammit...oh, wait, not the French ones, because Chirac hates Bush, but
all the rest of the them, you can bet...

HTH (Heap th' Hollandaise),
R

Chas Wade wrote:
The Makah Indian Tribe on the Olympic Peninsula has harvested 20,000
chinook salmon, the entire indian allotment for the 2005 year.

If these reports are accurate; it's a stupid act based on expediency.

IMO, the consequences will need to come from the Northwest Indian
Fisheries Commission. If the Makah's actions hurt some of the other
tribes, I'm guessing there will be consequences even if the Commission
puts on a unified public face.

Willi

"Chas Wade" wrote...

The Makah didn't "win one", they screwed themselves as
well as the rest of the tribes on the west coast.


Of course, it's hard to know what the heck is going on over there, from our
vantage point way over here on the East coast. It does sound like what they
did was a big slap on the side of the head of all the other folks who were
looking toward the salmon run for food, commercial interests, and
recreation. I still think it would be interesting to go to Neah Bay and ask
people what they think about it, and all the issues you mentioned; the
rights of others to the fish stocks, future fish stocks, taking of fish
before they spawn, etc. I'd be curious to know just what their motivation
was - sense of entitlement, neccessity, self-interest, ignorance, greed,
defiant attempt attempt to make a point, something else?

Any rate, one hopes everything gets straightened out & everybody can play
nice together next year.


Timothy Juvenal

"Chas Wade" wrote in message
...
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Chas Wade wrote:
The Makah Indian Tribe on the Olympic Peninsula has harvested 20,000
chinook salmon, the entire indian allotment for the 2005 year.
There
is little doubt that this crime will go unpunnished, and we'll loose
more of this endangered run. Details he ...

I don't see any details, all I see is a bunch of white boys
whining.

You claim a crime has been committed. Details please. Which
Washington state or federal laws have been broken, what treaty
has been broken ?


Well, Ken, the laws are the regulations produced by the NMFS, the
tribes, and the Washington State Fish and Game department. The federal
authority for these dates back to the infamous Bolt Decision from
around 1974 when judge Bolt decided that the tribes treaty entitled
them to half the fish that should be harvested. The roughly 40,000
fish commercial allotment for Chinook comes from the combined efforts
of the feds, the states, and the tribes.


And that is exactly the point. The Makah ****ed up, and in the process broke
faith with the other tribes who are supposed to be able to share in the run,
and gave fodder to lots of Indian Haters here and apparently as far as Deano
land.

Sorry my lib brethren but Native Americans can **** up too.

One consideration folk here should be aware of is the GEOGRAPHY involved.
Neah Bay is at the mouth of the Straits of San Juan de Fuca, far from major
population centers. The tribes further up the Straits and into the Puget
Sound all have (mostly) flourishing CASINOs and other population-dependent
enterprises. Casinos equal jobs and money. The Makah have a fairly intact
land base, a good harbor, some remaining timber, a little tourism and local
retail, occasional smuggling, and not a hell of a lot more. IE , , , a good
run of fish, or a Japanese buyer for Whale can be pretty tempting.

All of which is to say the formula reactions, pro and con, that don't take
into consideration whats on the ground, can all miss the mark in complex
situations. And Wolfgang, as always, at least for us Snedeker's, Ideology
Sucks.

Dave
(Oh Wolfgang, I just know you'll like to hear the looonnnggg version of how
Jan Snedeker paid the Carnarsi Indians for Flattbush after Styvassant tried
to cheat them.)

"Chas Wade" wrote in message
...

The Makah Indian Tribe on the Olympic Peninsula has harvested 20,000
chinook salmon, the entire indian allotment for the 2005 year. There
is little doubt that this crime will go unpunnished, and we'll loose
more of this endangered run. Details he

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flyta...ad.php?t=19447

The same tribe is systematically netting all the wild stock headed into
the Hoh river. Details he

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flyta...ad.php?t=19695

The least we can do is boycott restaurants that advertise "Wild Hoh
RiverSteelhead"

Chas
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Someone was allready whining about this a month ago.
Here's pretty much what I said then, still makes sense to me.

Try driving up highway 101 from Hoquiam and surveying all the clearcuts.
So the tribes are selling fish to restaurants. Whats dammage does a few fish
in a restaurant do compaired to ITT Rayonier? Have you looked at the
mountains of logs at Aberdeen wating to be put on ships to Japan or
somewhere?
It's hard to find a spot on the Olympic where you can't be in or see a
clearcut. The Hoh and other that originate in Olympic National Park are the
only one's left with decent runs.
The tribes will not the ones that will be responsible for some future run
with just one fish in it. It's the white man, the chain saw and greed. The
tribes may see the inevitable and just be in a hurry to get it over with.

Tribes or not, it's time to start looking for some variety of carp that will
live in silty rain water. If and when the salmon and steelhead are all
gone it'll more likely be the result of enviromental policy than a few
hundred indians.
Do your bitching where it will do the most good. The problem in on the
other coast.