OMG - It's On Topic! We Went, We Fished, We Caught Monsters!

On 2008-10-16, daytripper wrote:
Gotta tie lots of flies for these salmon runs: I had to pop loose or outright
break off at least a half-dozen fish for every one fair-hooked, and then the
odds of actually landing a fair-hooked fish aren't great -

Sounds like you had big fun.

For the still-newbs, could you clarify "fair-hooked"? Thnx.

nb

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:09:02 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

daytripper wrote:
I'm baaaaaaack. And holy crap this group has gone plumb crazy without me! ;-)
snip

Yeah, we miss your steady demeanor and calming influence. You're
like a virtual cigarette soothing roff's nerves. ;-)

Thanks. I knew you'd miss me most ;-)

Damn, that is one ugly, friggin' fish. It looks like it's on it's
last legs and about to expire right in front of the camera. Do
those things live to spawn another day or is that a dead fish
swimming ?

That's actually a fairly fresh king on this river. When they first hit the
estuary they're already colored pretty dark. Beat fish have a mottled
appearance - lots of random light yellowish-tan patches that stick out like
the dickens, and their fins show degrees of damage from struggling upstream.

As could be seen, this one had none of those signs - it's in virtually perfect
condition. And judging by how quickly he took off when released, he had plenty
of gas left...

/daytripper

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:28:45 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2008-10-16, daytripper wrote:
Gotta tie lots of flies for these salmon runs: I had to pop loose or outright
break off at least a half-dozen fish for every one fair-hooked, and then the
odds of actually landing a fair-hooked fish aren't great -

Sounds like you had big fun.

For the still-newbs, could you clarify "fair-hooked"? Thnx.

"Fair-hooked" means hooked in the mouth, as opposed to anywhere else (with
"anywhere else" designated "foul-hooked").

It's usually a dead-giveaway that a salmon is foul-hooked when it is doing
cartwheels across the stream, whereas a fair-hooked fish will usually try to
bull its way out. Generally, people will try to long-line release or simply
break-off a fish once it's obvious the fish isn't fair-hooked. That's always
been my practice, as I'm releasing everything anyway, and indeed that was
almost always the practice of other folks on the river from my observations. I
saw very few foul-hooked fish being fought once it was evident that the hook
wasn't anywhere near the mouth.

Note that a fair-hook doesn't necessarily mean the fish willingly tried to eat
the fly or nailed it out of "anger" - there's really no way to know that in
any given case, and I don't delude myself on that issue if I don't see the
actual take. It could just as easily be the result of snagging the fish in the
mouth - even if there was no intent and/or one never saw the fish to begin
with, which was almost always the case for us because of the high water while
we were on the river. Not a lot of sight-fishing this trip...

/daytripper

On 2008-10-16, daytripper wrote:

It's usually a dead-giveaway that a salmon is foul-hooked when it is doing
cartwheels across the stream, whereas a fair-hooked fish will usually try to
bull its way out. Generally, people will try to long-line release or simply
break-off a fish once it's obvious the fish isn't fair-hooked.

Hmmm. I would have thought a fish that is foul-hooked ....what I call gut
hooked.... would be kept for eating as there's a good chance it will die,
anyway. Your reply would seem to countradict that. Am I mistaken? If so,
how? Thank you for your previous enlightening reply.

nb

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:55:20 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2008-10-16, daytripper wrote:

It's usually a dead-giveaway that a salmon is foul-hooked when it is doing
cartwheels across the stream, whereas a fair-hooked fish will usually try to
bull its way out. Generally, people will try to long-line release or simply
break-off a fish once it's obvious the fish isn't fair-hooked.

Hmmm. I would have thought a fish that is foul-hooked ....what I call gut
hooked.... would be kept for eating as there's a good chance it will die,
anyway. Your reply would seem to countradict that. Am I mistaken? If so,
how? Thank you for your previous enlightening reply.

nb

Of course, all of the king salmon will expire at some point in the run. Their
ultimate demise isn't predicated by where they are hooked, although there is
surely a higher percentage of fish that will die before they have accomplished
their prime directive if they are played while foul-hooked. Especially in high
water, a foul-hooked fish will take much longer to land, particularly if
hooked in the dorsal fin, which is a fairly frequent occurrence.

It's pretty hard to control a 20 or 30 pound salmon hooked mid ship, so it's
often a matter of practicality to find a way to disconnect from such a hookup,
before some serious gear is lost. Heck, I foul-hooked one salmon in the dorsal
fin in a particularly fast, narrow run near the top of the river, and in far
less than a minute that fish had run out at least 200 yards of backing with no
relief in sight. Saving $70 of line and backing was a no-brainer.

While the NY DEC has been making incremental strides to eliminate snagging -
intentional or otherwise - through gear restrictions (and they implemented a
bunch of new rules this October 1) - it still happens, and there are some
people that will take anything they manage to land, regardless of how. But
they run the risk of prosecution: we saw DEC cops out with video cameras in a
few locations during our stay, saw them ticket a half-dozen offenders and
confiscate their gear.

We fish primarily in the most restricted sections of the river, and quite far
from any access point, to get away from the crowds. We usually put at least a
half-mile between us and the access point, and often twice that or more.
People that are going to keep their catch tend to congregate quite near the
access point - they don't really want to have to drag their catch any
distance. So, where we fish, we usually don't see anyone keeping their catch
anyway, and rarely see people playing foul-hooked fish for long...

/daytripper

On Oct 16, 3:44*pm, daytripper wrote:
[ explanations ]

Hey, thanks for those explanations. Glad you had a fun trip and
thanks for posting about it.

On 2008-10-16, daytripper wrote:

[...]

anyway, and rarely see people playing foul-hooked fish for long...

All that makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

nb

daytripper wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:09:02 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:


daytripper wrote:

I'm baaaaaaack. And holy crap this group has gone plumb crazy without me! ;-)
snip

Yeah, we miss your steady demeanor and calming influence. You're
like a virtual cigarette soothing roff's nerves. ;-)


Thanks. I knew you'd miss me most ;-)


Damn, that is one ugly, friggin' fish. It looks like it's on it's
last legs and about to expire right in front of the camera. Do
those things live to spawn another day or is that a dead fish
swimming ?


That's actually a fairly fresh king on this river. When they first hit the
estuary they're already colored pretty dark. Beat fish have a mottled
appearance - lots of random light yellowish-tan patches that stick out like
the dickens, and their fins show degrees of damage from struggling upstream.

As could be seen, this one had none of those signs - it's in virtually perfect
condition. And judging by how quickly he took off when released, he had plenty
of gas left...

I'd say it was around midway between fresh and spawned out. A fresh king
has a silvery color, an active spawner is bright red, and, like you say,
a spawned-out one is patchy.

Nice fish.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Dave,

That is one damn nice Goliath.
My oldest son commented a full season of caught brookies wouldn't add up to
that one fish - and he wants to go with us next fall :-)
But that is truly the best catch of all.

Kiyu

On Oct 16, 2:11*pm, rw wrote:

I'd say it was around midway between fresh and spawned out. A fresh king
has a silvery color, an active spawner is bright red, and, like you say,
a spawned-out one is patchy.

Nice fish.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even when they are comming out of a fresh water lake? (Question, RW,
not a criticism)
Tripper, didn't you live on Hood Canal once upon a time?
Dave