On track for a 2020 ban on sportsfishing?

Tom Littleton wrote:
given that PETA is largely a laughing-stock in the general public, with
little or no traction for their ideas, I would say
(as I did when you stated this stuff 7 years ago or more),
it is VERY unlikely. I merely look around my PA local area at prevalent
attitudes and see two key trends:

1. The tradition of angling is still strong, and pressure to preserve waters
for fishing is still strong

Pressure to preserve (and rehabilitate) waters is getting stronger
daily......despite the appalling (if not surprising) lack of leadership
at the level of national governments. Even "business" is
coming.....however belatedly and reluctantly.....to the inexpicably
correct conclusion that preservation and restoration is in its own best
interests both in the near and the long terms. Of course, none of this
is necessarily related to our own self-interested reasons, but fishing
(for whatever purpose and by most common methods) has traditionally
resonated strongly with the general populace wherever it has been a
common practice.....a few notable exceptions (like the current societal
dementia in Germany) notwithstanding, and continues to do so to this
day. It does, and it will continue to, strike a powerful atavistic
chord in the human psyche.

On the other hand, there is an increasing tendency in technologically
and economically hyperdeveloped cultures to Disnefy the animal
kingdom.....or, at least those members of it that can in any way be
rendered as cute. Fish, or some of them anyway, qualify. Well, this
too shall pass. At any rate, it's just a symptom of something larger.
Western culture has long forgotten its origins in the natural
world.....and it has recently transmitted this disregard to its *******
offspring in the rest of the world, just in time for what may become a
sea change in humanity's view of its relationships with the rest of the
animate world. We hope so, anyway. Otherwise we're ****ing doomed
along with the fish. Either way, what we do to while away our leisure
time in idyllic riparian settings will be around for a couple more
generations and then, one way or another, it's over. And, either way,
the clowns at PETA have nothing to do with it

2. Aging populations will, as others suggest lead to a
diminishing pressure upon the resource to the point where
it will be a non-issue.

Not necessarily true. Recruitment in excess of expected geriatric
losses is not entirely impossible. As "Green" sensibilities burgeon
and mature (a thing much to be hoped for.....especially among those who
love the wild places where fishes thrive......right?) we could see a
huge increase in the numbers of those itching to get outside and enjoy
the benfits of their efforts to save the world. Where to go but the
woods and fileds and streams? And what to do when you get there?
Well, it has be something in keeping with the sensibilities of those
who have saved it for themselves and posterity; something elegant,
something cerebral*, something sophisticated and stylish.....and
obviously so.

now, fact 2 could be used to argue that the PETA crowd will win out via
lesser resistance, but I feel much of the resistance to their agenda is in
the pure silliness of the approach and arguments. Time will tell.......

Indeed it will. And what it will tell is that these impotent and
intellectually sterile nitwits (and you may rest assured that, like the
nitwits here in ROFF, they know who and what they are.....that's why
they do what they do) are willing to settle for being knowing
caricatures of human beings.....because it's better than being nothing.
But, they're wrong; the distinction is spurious.

Wolfgang
*and we ain't talking baseball here.

Charlie Choc wrote:
On 25 Jul 2006 09:30:58 -0700, wrote:

That attitude, and basic unpreparedness, is precisely what will win it
for them.

Just because their approach (hyperbole) resonates with you doesn't mean it will
work on a majority.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

Agreed. Keep in mind that the same link to the PETA anti-fish webpage
had a link to 'chickens have feelings too' and 'pigs have feelings too'
and 'cows have feelings too' webpages. My bet is that sportfishing will
meets its demise shortly after KFC and MickyD's go under.

--riverman

Wolfgang wrote:
Tom Littleton wrote:
given that PETA is largely a laughing-stock in the general public, with
little or no traction for their ideas, I would say
(as I did when you stated this stuff 7 years ago or more),
it is VERY unlikely. I merely look around my PA local area at prevalent
attitudes and see two key trends:

1. The tradition of angling is still strong, and pressure to preserve waters
for fishing is still strong

Pressure to preserve (and rehabilitate) waters is getting stronger
daily......despite the appalling (if not surprising) lack of leadership
at the level of national governments. Even "business" is
coming.....however belatedly and reluctantly.....to the inexpicably
correct conclusion that preservation and restoration is in its own best
interests both in the near and the long terms. Of course, none of this
is necessarily related to our own self-interested reasons, but fishing
(for whatever purpose and by most common methods) has traditionally
resonated strongly with the general populace wherever it has been a
common practice.....a few notable exceptions (like the current societal
dementia in Germany) notwithstanding, and continues to do so to this
day. It does, and it will continue to, strike a powerful atavistic
chord in the human psyche.

On the other hand, there is an increasing tendency in technologically
and economically hyperdeveloped cultures to Disnefy the animal
kingdom.....or, at least those members of it that can in any way be
rendered as cute. Fish, or some of them anyway, qualify. Well, this
too shall pass. At any rate, it's just a symptom of something larger.
Western culture has long forgotten its origins in the natural
world.....and it has recently transmitted this disregard to its *******
offspring in the rest of the world, just in time for what may become a
sea change in humanity's view of its relationships with the rest of the
animate world. We hope so, anyway. Otherwise we're ****ing doomed
along with the fish. Either way, what we do to while away our leisure
time in idyllic riparian settings will be around for a couple more
generations and then, one way or another, it's over. And, either way,
the clowns at PETA have nothing to do with it

2. Aging populations will, as others suggest lead to a
diminishing pressure upon the resource to the point where
it will be a non-issue.

Not necessarily true. Recruitment in excess of expected geriatric
losses is not entirely impossible. As "Green" sensibilities burgeon
and mature (a thing much to be hoped for.....especially among those who
love the wild places where fishes thrive......right?) we could see a
huge increase in the numbers of those itching to get outside and enjoy
the benfits of their efforts to save the world. Where to go but the
woods and fileds and streams? And what to do when you get there?
Well, it has be something in keeping with the sensibilities of those
who have saved it for themselves and posterity; something elegant,
something cerebral*, something sophisticated and stylish.....and
obviously so.

now, fact 2 could be used to argue that the PETA crowd will win out via
lesser resistance, but I feel much of the resistance to their agenda is in
the pure silliness of the approach and arguments. Time will tell.......

Indeed it will. And what it will tell is that these impotent and
intellectually sterile nitwits (and you may rest assured that, like the
nitwits here in ROFF, they know who and what they are.....that's why
they do what they do) are willing to settle for being knowing
caricatures of human beings.....because it's better than being nothing.
But, they're wrong; the distinction is spurious.

Wolfgang
*and we ain't talking baseball here.

Nice post Wolfman.

Up until this time I thought you were human, like the rest of us
caricatures.

Say what you will. A 26' billboard of a lipless trout sponsored by the
popular movie or rock star will certainly capture the attention of a
whole lot of urbanites, wouldn't you have to agree?

I'm not sure that I agree that "fishing strikes a powerful atavistic
chord in the human psyche" is justification enough to warrant pure
catch and release fishing. Sex too strikes a powerful atavistic chord
but we can't hump everything that moves. I do believe that it much more
difficult to argue the morality of subsistence fishing or fishing when
it benefits the health of the fishery, a la the basics of hunting
management, and I struggle with the dogma held on to by the C&R
contingent to ignore this fact.

Halfordian Golfer
Guilt replaced the creel.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Years ago I made a prediction (here) that sports fishing would be
banned around the year 2020 and that pure, Catch and Release fishing
would be causal for this.



Tim - I am disappointed that after some years hiatus all you can come up
with is the same old PETA/AR Loon propaganda and that tired old paper from a
committee funded by Norway's department of agriculture - which was not the
Ministry that even had jurisdiction over sport fishing in that country. The
paper like most government commissioned papers was meaningless and ignored.

For the sake of amusement - how do you see this ban progressing? Given that
many states (and the Province in Canada I live in) have legislation
guaranteeing the right to fish, what political jurisdictions do you think
will be the bell weather locations for the progression of the ban? Can you
name one jurisdiction where such a ban has had serious political momentum?

Any "nobody" can make a predcition for anything 15 to 25 years out.
Hopefully we will all be around in 14 years or so to see if your prediction
comes true or if it is even close to happening for the reasons you say.
--
Some of my angling snaps:

http://gallery.fishbc.com/gallery/vi...bumName=RalphH

On 25 Jul 2006 19:03:20 -0700, wrote:



Say what you will. A 26' billboard of a lipless trout sponsored by the
popular movie or rock star will certainly capture the attention of a
whole lot of urbanites, wouldn't you have to agree?


Yep. Teen girls and little kids will all go, "Oh, ish." And then
they'll go home and have the fish sticks that mommy made for supper.
Or, if more yuppie, the salmon steaks (salmon is 'in' now because of
the health benefits).
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On 25 Jul 2006 09:30:58 -0700, wrote:

(snipped)

That said, I agree with you given the time span that timmy has stipulated
for the success of his venture. If the slavering anti-fishing hordes invade
the backwoods of northern Curdistan or da Yoop in 2020 the venture will lend
new and poignant meaning to the term "blood sport."

That attitude, and basic unpreparedness, is precisely what will win it
for them.

I think he was referring to the backwoods attitudes. Small town WI
and UP is a bit more forceful about what they think their rights are
than the left and right coast urbanites are. Actually, small town
backwoods anywhere is pretty forceful, though sometimes they're quiet
and subtle about it.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On 25 Jul 2006 19:01:41 -0700, "riverman" wrote:


Charlie Choc wrote:
On 25 Jul 2006 09:30:58 -0700, wrote:

That attitude, and basic unpreparedness, is precisely what will win it
for them.

Just because their approach (hyperbole) resonates with you doesn't mean it will
work on a majority.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

Agreed. Keep in mind that the same link to the PETA anti-fish webpage
had a link to 'chickens have feelings too' and 'pigs have feelings too'
and 'cows have feelings too' webpages. My bet is that sportfishing will
meets its demise shortly after KFC and MickyD's go under.

As the Timbo's say: "When it comes to feelings, a child is a dog is a fish." I
guess that means that it's OK to harm a child or dog as long as you kill and eat
it afterwards.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

"Fred Lebow" wrote in message
...

Esp Americans like George W Bush
He surely represents most Americans

Sad but true - the problem with America isn't Bush. It's Americans.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Nice post Wolfman.

We try.

Up until this time I thought you were human, like the rest of us
caricatures.

Caricatures aren't human. That's why they're called caricatures.

Say what you will. A 26' billboard of a lipless trout sponsored by the
popular movie or rock star will certainly capture the attention of a
whole lot of urbanites, wouldn't you have to agree?

Refresh my memory.....who is the popular movie or rock star?

At any rate, if that billboard keeps shrinking at its current rate (10 feet
in the past 34 hours) I'll be greatly surprised if it captures much of
anything beyond next Tuesday or thereabouts. Damage control shouldn't prove
to be too taxing.

I'm not sure that I agree that "fishing strikes a powerful atavistic
chord in the human psyche" is justification enough to warrant pure
catch and release fishing.

Do I look like someone so bereft of things to do or think about that I would
resort to a concern for what you agree with?

Sex too strikes a powerful atavistic chord
but we can't hump everything that moves.

An interesting observation coming from one who gets humped by everything
that moves.

I do believe that it much more
difficult to argue the morality of subsistence fishing or fishing when
it benefits the health of the fishery, a la the basics of hunting
management, and I struggle with the dogma held on to by the C&R
contingent to ignore this fact.

Your struggles are the stuff of legends. Not that I suppose it will do any
good, but I'd feel that I failed in a civic responsibility if I neglected to
suggest that your struggles might be eased somewhat if you were to spend
some time examining questions rather than dealing exclusively with trying to
justify a monomaniacal adherence to answers apropos of nothing in
particular.

On the other hand, medication is a lot simpler.

Wolfgang

"Cyli" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jul 2006 09:30:58 -0700, wrote:

(snipped)

That said, I agree with you given the time span that timmy has
stipulated
for the success of his venture. If the slavering anti-fishing hordes
invade
the backwoods of northern Curdistan or da Yoop in 2020 the venture will
lend
new and poignant meaning to the term "blood sport."

That attitude, and basic unpreparedness, is precisely what will win it
for them.

I think he was referring to the backwoods attitudes. Small town WI
and UP is a bit more forceful about what they think their rights are
than the left and right coast urbanites are. Actually, small town
backwoods anywhere is pretty forceful, though sometimes they're quiet
and subtle about it.

Sometimes not so subtle. As I'm sure you remember, we came very close to a
shooting war over fishing rights in northern Wisconsin as recently as
fifteen years ago. There were numerous violent incidents. It is little
short of a miracle that no one got killed.....this time. The fire is under
control, for the moment, but it is by no means out. I'll be much surprised
if it doesn't flare up again in the not too distant future.

Of course, this particular set of circumstances was exacerbated by virulent
racism but any attempt to ban fishing (in the instant case, it was only
about the perception that one group was getting more than its fair
share......well, ostensibly, anyway) WOULD be met with lethal opposition.

Wolfgang