*** Western Clave 2004 Fallout ****

Thank You everyone for your advice, and comments. I know some of you spent
some time to respond with supporting info too, and it is very much
appreciated. !!!

Mike

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:20:08 -0500, "Mike Makela" ten.tsacmoc@alekamm wrote:


"Charlie Choc" wrote in message


That blows. What kind of damage are they claiming?

Oh yeah, the damages indicated was "Dented and Scraped from Passenger side
front door to pass side rear fender"

There's no way they would have missed $1900 worth of damage when I turned it
in. They did check the mileage and gas gauge while I was there and the
agent actually came around that side of the car.

Seems like the fact you returned it to a person rather than just dropping off
the keys would work in your favor.

I got rear-ended by some Canadians in the Keys once and, even though they got
a ticket and the cop gave me a copy, I still had to pay for the damage. That
all happened when I turn the car in, though. To fight it I would have had to
go to court in Miami, so I just paid up.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:20:08 -0500, "Mike Makela" ten.tsacmoc@alekamm wrote:


"Charlie Choc" wrote in message


That blows. What kind of damage are they claiming?

Oh yeah, the damages indicated was "Dented and Scraped from Passenger side
front door to pass side rear fender"

There's no way they would have missed $1900 worth of damage when I turned it
in. They did check the mileage and gas gauge while I was there and the
agent actually came around that side of the car.

Seems like the fact you returned it to a person rather than just dropping off
the keys would work in your favor.

I got rear-ended by some Canadians in the Keys once and, even though they got
a ticket and the cop gave me a copy, I still had to pay for the damage. That
all happened when I turn the car in, though. To fight it I would have had to
go to court in Miami, so I just paid up.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

Mike Makela wrote:


How can I find out if a state could grant attorney's fees? One of the other
reasons I hesitate to have it go to court is that in the agreement it
states: "I agree to pay your reasonable attorneys fees and costs in any
lawsuit relating to this agreement, including appeals." . Can they really
do that? Make me pay for their attorney fees?


um...yes virginia, there really is a boogey man. g short
answer...yes, in most states, shifting of litigation costs by contract
is permitted. but, you need to make them worry about it too. you're
still in the conversation, right.

google "wyoming consumer statute laws attorney fees"...or something
similar. some contracts contain a "choice of laws" clause...in other
words, the contract law of another state applies (or so they claim). you
might need to google a different state. look at the rental contract for
binding arbitration clauses too. some of those are punitive as well, but
the location might be more favorable to you. if you get sued, your
insurance company is supposed to provide a lawyer as part of your policy
coverage. another reason it will want to settle it quickly and less
expensively. getting your company involved is important...if it's
possible. you and your agent will have to convince the adjuster to
investigate more thoroughly, something he/she won't want to spend time
or effort doing.

now i understand how alamo recoups from those low rental costs. you
should also complain to the web site you used to obtain the car, as well
as your credit card company.

....and, i was just kidding about ij driving.g

jeff

Mike Makela wrote:
"Gene Cyprych" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mike Makela wrote:
Mike, you can probably get some free advice to start with at a
local
law school. Many years ago I contacted George Washington law
school
and they put me in touch with someone who is knowledgeable on the
topic. I don't know where you live but you can probably search the
web
for schools that have such programs and they don't have to be local
to
you.

Hope this helps.


Knowledgeable on this topic, or just in general?\
Knowledgeable on the topic you are dealing with.

Mike,

Sorry to hear about the Alamo ripoff.

You were very careful with that car and I don't recall you even leaving the
road with it. It was a 4X4 anyway, que no?

bruce h

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:09:26 -0500, "Mike Makela" ten.tsacmoc@alekamm
wrote:

Almost four months after the Western Clave I recvd a call letting me know
that I owed $1900 for damages to the rental car (actually truck) I had while

Some thoughts, in no particular order...

1. Call the shop that did the repair and see what they have to say on
matters such as age of damage, Alamo's diligence on picking up vehicle
upon completion, etc.

2. Call Alamo's HQ and ask for (or demand) the pre-repair notification
to you, and your waiver of rights.

3. How and _where_ _exactly_ did you make the reservation? While
Wyoming will probably eventually control, if you created a contract in,
or any part of the contract, say, California, you can always make THEM
change the jurisdiction/venue/etc..

4. Is there a lawyer friend available to write a letter to Alamo? If
their case is the least bit, um, doubtful, this may end the matter. It
need not be much more than a general inquiry type of letter: please
provide a written report, copies of all contracts, reports, repair
orders, etc. to my office for review... However, realize that
"favors" like this can put obligations upon a lawyer, and that "your
friend, Bob Jones" and "Bob Jones, a lawyer" are two distinct entities.
Take any answer to a request for such "favors" as coming from the latter
first and former second.

5. My suspicion is that no matter what "Alamo" actually believes, if
you are a big enough pain in the ass, "they'll" drop it as a matter of
economics.

6. I use "" in 5., above, to indicate that likely as not, there is one
person making the decisions in this matter (possibly with a supervisor
signing off) rather than "company/corporation,", and you'll know much
more about WTF is going on if you can reach that one person.

IMO, you need to decide what controls for you - principles and time or
pocketbook, because one is going to have to give, and I suspect Alamo
can tell you EXACTLY at what point it's "oh, **** it" line will be
crossed. Someone said something about ins. cos. not paying hinkey
claims and they are correct - generally speaking, an ins. co. will spend
1000s to avoid 100s in bogus claims, but they have a economic incentive
to do so. Are you, right now, willing to commit to spend more than
250.00USD to fight? If not, you have found your line.

HTH and good luck,
R

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:09:26 -0500, "Mike Makela" ten.tsacmoc@alekamm
wrote:

Almost four months after the Western Clave I recvd a call letting me know
that I owed $1900 for damages to the rental car (actually truck) I had while

Some thoughts, in no particular order...

1. Call the shop that did the repair and see what they have to say on
matters such as age of damage, Alamo's diligence on picking up vehicle
upon completion, etc.

2. Call Alamo's HQ and ask for (or demand) the pre-repair notification
to you, and your waiver of rights.

3. How and _where_ _exactly_ did you make the reservation? While
Wyoming will probably eventually control, if you created a contract in,
or any part of the contract, say, California, you can always make THEM
change the jurisdiction/venue/etc..

4. Is there a lawyer friend available to write a letter to Alamo? If
their case is the least bit, um, doubtful, this may end the matter. It
need not be much more than a general inquiry type of letter: please
provide a written report, copies of all contracts, reports, repair
orders, etc. to my office for review... However, realize that
"favors" like this can put obligations upon a lawyer, and that "your
friend, Bob Jones" and "Bob Jones, a lawyer" are two distinct entities.
Take any answer to a request for such "favors" as coming from the latter
first and former second.

5. My suspicion is that no matter what "Alamo" actually believes, if
you are a big enough pain in the ass, "they'll" drop it as a matter of
economics.

6. I use "" in 5., above, to indicate that likely as not, there is one
person making the decisions in this matter (possibly with a supervisor
signing off) rather than "company/corporation,", and you'll know much
more about WTF is going on if you can reach that one person.

IMO, you need to decide what controls for you - principles and time or
pocketbook, because one is going to have to give, and I suspect Alamo
can tell you EXACTLY at what point it's "oh, **** it" line will be
crossed. Someone said something about ins. cos. not paying hinkey
claims and they are correct - generally speaking, an ins. co. will spend
1000s to avoid 100s in bogus claims, but they have a economic incentive
to do so. Are you, right now, willing to commit to spend more than
250.00USD to fight? If not, you have found your line.

HTH and good luck,
R

bruiser wrote:
Mike,

Sorry to hear about the Alamo ripoff.

You were very careful with that car and I don't recall you even leaving the
road with it. It was a 4X4 anyway, que no?

Here's an idea for Mike. Next time, rent from Alamo again, buy the
insurance they offer, and have a helluva thrilling time with the car.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

wrote in news:7l40t0dom4qjnpetv8rr68broa701n8b7u@
4ax.com:

Are you, right now, willing to commit to spend more than
250.00USD to fight? If not, you have found your line.

HTH and good luck,
R


The first approach, and certainly a reasonable one, is to do whatever
your insurance company tells you do do. Ask your insurance company if
you are putting yourself on the line if you contest this charge.
Personally, I'd be very suprised if your insurer didn't demand thorough
documentation before payment.

If the insurance company says its OK (and ONLY if they say its OK), I'd
think it would be worth at least one polite registered letter, saying
that Mike didn't notice any damage, that the agent accepting the car
didn't point out any damage, and four months sounds like an unreasonable
amount of time for notification of a problem. Ask for a dated photo of
the damage, and the circumstances under which it was discovered. Was it
the renter after you who reported it when he turned the car in, saying
"It was like that when I got it"?

Be very specific about saying you'll be very happy to turn this over to
your insurance company for review if they can provide this documentation,
but you'll refer the matter to the appropriate State Attorney General's
office and the BBB if they don't. DO NOT, in any circumstance, suggest
that you will accept their terms if they provide documentation-- you
might be waiving some rights your insurance company would like to keep.

Also, in the future, ALWAYS do a walk-around the car before you get into
it, and if you see any damage, demand a new car, or specify that the
damage be entered into the rental contract. I've done it myself, and
sometimes for tiny dings. There's no telling what the rental agency is
going to make a stink about later.

Scott