*** Western Clave 2004 Fallout ****

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:21:21 GMT, "Joe McIntosh"
wrote:

well! mr photo galleries could we have a picture of the "capilene boxers" to
go with the pants picture???

http://www.patagonia.com/za/PDC?OPTI...&promo_cat_id=

my fishing underware are usually old worn out
jc penny's which i wear for two days then throw away.

Almost like what your roommate does with his t-shirts, huh? g
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

"Mike Makela" ten.tsacmoc@alekamm wrote in message
...
Almost four months after the Western Clave I recvd a call letting me know
that I owed $1900 for damages to the rental car (actually truck) I had
while
I was attending the Western Clave this past year. There was no damage to
the truck, I am sure of that, but having a tough problem disputing the
claim. Seems as though Alamo wants to "pursue the claim" despite my
dispute,
and if I don't pay they will report it to the credit agencies.

I'm really at a loss of what to do, my insurance company will cover it
minus
the $250 deductible, but I really don't want to pay a cent since I did
not
damage the car. I don't understand how they could file a claim against
my credit if I am disputing their claim, and that they would have to take
me
to court before that.

Where is the requirement for proof here? Do they have to prove I did it,
or
do I have to prove I didn't?

I'm thinking that I could pay the claim for now, and initiate a civil case
against them, but it would be a hardship for me to prove I didn't do
anything, as I don't have any confirmation from Alamo when I dropped the
car
that it was damage free. Their process, at least in Jackson Hole, is to
do
that evaluation after it is dropped off and the customer is sent on their
way. They say they discovered the damage at this point, when they took
the
car back for this evaluation and routine prep for the next customer. All
of
their documentation is handwritten, so I don't know if they have
manipulated
the documentation, of if the damage occurred in the short time between
when
I dropped it off, and it was serviced (those are the only two
possibilities
I have thought of). I would hope it is the latter, that it's a honest
mistake by the company, but I beginning to think otherwise as I get no
where
with them. It may just be easier to pin some damage on someone from out of
town, since it would be very difficult from them to challenge the claim
remotely.

There is some other stuff that just doesn't add up either, like that they
waited almost 4 months to inform me of the damage (why wouldn't they do it
immediately?), and just as significant, that the car wasn't fixed until
September, 2 months after my rental.

Any advice would be welcome, but if nothing else, always make sure you
have
some kind of coverage on your rental care (which I did but would be
totally
screwed if not). Also, as a favor, next time you rent from Alamo, take
special care of that company's cars.

The only possible good to come out of this may be that if I do need to
show
up for court to win this dispute, I would much rather spend my money on
the
trip out there, then to give it to the low life scumbags at Alamo in
Jackson
Hole. This would mean I could get some more fishing time in the area.
Who
knows, maybe the case could time out for the Western Clave in 2005.

Mike


Have they sent you anything at all or did you just get a phone call? It
occurs to me that it might be profitable to periodically clean out the
dumpster at the Alamo place (or some other car rental place). I could go
through the paper and after 3 or 4 months send out a bunch of letters like
the one you got.
Even I could fake all the forms on a computer. I don't know what the return
percentage would be but I'd bet I could make more money than our friends in
Nigeria with all the bank connections.
Being that it could be a mail scam consider turn it over to the Attorney
General ( they have a fraud department here). If they have not sent
anything in the mail that could indicate that it's a scam and their afraid
of the postal inspectors.

"B J Conner" wrote in message
news:rzVAd.5884$Y57.5595@trnddc08...

"Mike Makela" ten.tsacmoc@alekamm wrote in message
...



Have they sent you anything at all or did you just get a phone call? It
occurs to me that it might be profitable to periodically clean out the
dumpster at the Alamo place (or some other car rental place). I could go
through the paper and after 3 or 4 months send out a bunch of letters like
the one you got.
Even I could fake all the forms on a computer. I don't know what the
return
percentage would be but I'd bet I could make more money than our friends
in
Nigeria with all the bank connections.
Being that it could be a mail scam consider turn it over to the Attorney
General ( they have a fraud department here). If they have not sent
anything in the mail that could indicate that it's a scam and their afraid
of the postal inspectors.



The have sent me enough documentation that it looks like it's legit, but
once the insurance company is engaged, we'll find out for sure. I can also
go to one of the contacts listed on their web-site. Reporting it to the
Attorney General may get their attention though....

Mike

"asadi...." wrote in message
ink.net...
Mike,
I have tried to keep up on this thread and I don't believe anyone has
mentioned two very important terms: 1) countersuit and 2) pro se

. . . Once you get the hang of speaking of yourself in the third person,
you
could have a ton of fun with this.

john

add: third party ...sorry Jeff and Wayne, I know how you guys feel about
this sort of thing.



Countersuit for what? Do I have to show an actual loss to sue? If I have
my insurance company pay the claim can I then sue? I'm thinking it may be
hard to do recover after it was paid.
I've never gone the Pro Se route. I ran a search and come up with a ton of
hits, any suggestions as to the best way to go?

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:57:11 GMT, "B J Conner"
wrote:

(snipped)

Have they sent you anything at all or did you just get a phone call? It
occurs to me that it might be profitable to periodically clean out the
dumpster at the Alamo place (or some other car rental place). I could go
through the paper and after 3 or 4 months send out a bunch of letters like
the one you got.
Even I could fake all the forms on a computer. I don't know what the return
percentage would be but I'd bet I could make more money than our friends in
Nigeria with all the bank connections.
Being that it could be a mail scam consider turn it over to the Attorney
General ( they have a fraud department here). If they have not sent
anything in the mail that could indicate that it's a scam and their afraid
of the postal inspectors.

B J, for the first time I really appreciate your mind. Twisty. Now
let's hope no one who hasn't already thought of it for himself gives
it a real life try. The amount is almost exactly right for the renter
to pay himself instead of turning it into the insurance company and
getting that much higher premiums every year. A lot of people would
never think twice and would just write a check and send it in.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:57:11 GMT, "B J Conner"
wrote:

(snipped)

Have they sent you anything at all or did you just get a phone call? It
occurs to me that it might be profitable to periodically clean out the
dumpster at the Alamo place (or some other car rental place). I could go
through the paper and after 3 or 4 months send out a bunch of letters like
the one you got.
Even I could fake all the forms on a computer. I don't know what the return
percentage would be but I'd bet I could make more money than our friends in
Nigeria with all the bank connections.
Being that it could be a mail scam consider turn it over to the Attorney
General ( they have a fraud department here). If they have not sent
anything in the mail that could indicate that it's a scam and their afraid
of the postal inspectors.

B J, for the first time I really appreciate your mind. Twisty. Now
let's hope no one who hasn't already thought of it for himself gives
it a real life try. The amount is almost exactly right for the renter
to pay himself instead of turning it into the insurance company and
getting that much higher premiums every year. A lot of people would
never think twice and would just write a check and send it in.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

Joe

You can get FOUR days out of the skivies:
first day: wear regular way: second day- reverse front and back; third
and fourth days- turn the skivies inside out and repeat process.
Walla-Four days wear!

On 31 Dec 2004 04:46:01 -0800, "lou t" wrote:

Joe

You can get FOUR days out of the skivies:
first day: wear regular way: second day- reverse front and back; third
and fourth days- turn the skivies inside out and repeat process.
Walla-Four days wear!

You could wear them as a hat on the 5th day, should block the sun pretty good
by then. g
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

On 12/31/04 8:41 AM, in article ,
"Charlie Choc" wrote:

On 31 Dec 2004 04:46:01 -0800, "lou t" wrote:

Joe

You can get FOUR days out of the skivies:
first day: wear regular way: second day- reverse front and back; third
and fourth days- turn the skivies inside out and repeat process.
Walla-Four days wear!

You could wear them as a hat on the 5th day, should block the sun pretty good
by then. g

And guarantee you get the river to yourself!

Bill

Countersuit for what? Do I have to show an actual loss to sue? If I have
my insurance company pay the claim can I then sue? I'm thinking it may be
hard to do recover after it was paid.
I've never gone the Pro Se route. I ran a search and come up with a ton
of
hits, any suggestions as to the best way to go?


The neat thing is that if anything you file is wrong, the judge throws it
out, all the while telling you why! Free lessons as it were.

The filing clerks can provide a wealth of information if they are so
inclined, be servile, humble and awed by their knowledge.

For starters, send everything registered/certified mail, with copies to
everyone and include a little proof of service statement at the bottom -
especially of the things you file.

If any of the courts that any of the parties have actions in, have
records/filings online, you already have the basic format of anything you
might wish to say, just change the names...

Keep an itemized list of everything you do, mail, copy send, etc. You have
already accumulated several dollars worth of online time in your research in
this matter. Parking, mileage, phone calls, postage, copies - all these are
expenses you have incurred and need to recover.

Also, since the contract was signed in 'your' city, county, whatever, that
would - presumably - establish jurisdiction and regardless of where they
file, you may challenge that it be moved to 'your' jurisdiction. Many
companies file in an out of the way place hoping that you will not or cannot
respond at a long distance - and this has not been viewed kindly by the
courts. You see here the potential to make this a Federal Case since it
involves interstate commerce.

The home office of the car rental or the particular franchise, the national
company, the credit card company, all are potential third party defendants
and if you feel that any advertising representation is not accurate,
subpoena all records.

These people, other than some letter which has no backing, claim you owe
money. They have not established to your satisfaction the condition of the
car before you rented it, the condition of the car when given to the next
renter, repair records, proof that the car 'could' have been rented if it
was not damaged, in short - it is a scam. Demand the names of all customers
for a year or two, particularly the customer before and after you. Search
for proof of the scam.

Did they advertise efficient prompt courteous service. Is there anything
that you feel was misrepresented?

Most states have a 'Consumer Sales Act' or some such that gives you specific
legal rights. In Ohio this entitles you to collect/recover (in addition to
your damages or losses or expenses in the matter) TRIPLE the original
contract price. see: Chapter 1345 of the Ohio Revised Code.

The counter suit is your defense stating that you have losses and that they
(the plaintiff) were/are in the wrong. And in counter suing and naming any
and all imaginable third party defendants, you really stir up a hornets
nest. Although the business will not appreciate what you have done, they
will know why you have done it and their hostility will be directed and the
car company who started it in the first place.

If you decide to file first as the plaintiff, you would only be naming the
car company and it's individual franchise owner. Either way, you are aware
of this repair scam to out of state renters and you will be able to see
their reluctance in providing the information you subpoena. In any situation
before the judge do not be afraid to express this, if you are business like
and wait your turn to speak and adequately express yourself, he will not
take kindly to the scam either. The judge won't permit any wild
searches/subpoenas, however, if you can show exactly what you are looking
for and adequately express the probability of finding, you will be allowed
to go on your 'fishing expedition.'

. . . back to the misrepresentation of the rental
agreement/properties/service - it is probably too late to protest the charge
but a letter to your credit card company might be in order, explaining what
is going on and protesting any 'future' charges to your account by these
people.

You have the right to tell these people to file suit, you may demand it. In
most situations if they do not, they lose the right to.

For starters, I would pen a letter demanding my money back. I would explain
the irregularities, the misrepresentation and so forth. You wish to give the
appearance of one who is beginning to question things. You want to appear as
someone who might, just might, do a little more investigation and possibly
be a tough customer and therefore it would be better to leave you alone.
Chances are you will never hear from them again.

Personally, if it were me, I'd be ****ed and looking at any applicable
Consumer Sales Practice violations and see about recovering money...but then
sometimes I go off a little hot headed.

Now, here is something interesting. I once had a situation where I purchased
some airline tickets well in advance of my flight and had a go around about
missing luggage or some such.

Naturally the credit card company - when I protested the charges - claimed
that my time period had expired. However, it was my contention that the
transaction was not completed until the time of the flight (product
delivery) and therefore I was well within my time limits. It was not my
fault that the delivery of the product was so long in arriving. The time
constraints (in my situation with my credit card company at the time)
applied to a 'transaction' not necessarily a 'charge' to my account.

In essence, the car company has stated that your contract or 'transaction'
with them is not yet complete, or their actions may have 'extended' the
transaction period and thus, you would still be within your rights to
protest the original charges for the rental of the car!

Now the lawyers here cannot give you any legal advice, if any opposing
attorney heard that Wolfgang 'said' or Asadi 'said', while speaking as an
attorney, or otherwise offered advice or acted as counsel, they could be
subpoenaed and would have to travel at their own expense. There is a
multitude of conflicts and therein lies the reason for silence.

However, truth be known as it was told to me (and not for the first time)
that attorney's do not like those 'pro se kind of guys.' We muck things up
too much.

. . . All those who think I'm, full of ****, signify by saying, "Aye."


john