waterboarding

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=448717

It's torture. Plain and simple.

I am so disgusted with our government.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Dec 28, 7:24*pm, rw wrote:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=448717

It's torture. Plain and simple.

I am so disgusted with our government.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.



Someday we'll see video of some Amreican GI being waterboarded and who
knows what else. Is Bush going to tell his family that isn't torture.
535 people and note with the balls to do what needs to be done.

Is that some new fly fishing product I missed?

Time to make more bombs? or leave this darn country?
--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"rw" wrote in message
...
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=448717

It's torture. Plain and simple.

I am so disgusted with our government.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:24:29 -0800, rw
wrote:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=448717

Oh, well, as long as some anonymous poster on the internet makes claims,
that's all the information or proof anyone should need...

It's torture. Plain and simple.

Whatever it is, Gracie, it is neither "plain" or "simple"...trust me or
don't...

I am so disgusted with our government.

Like most folks, I'm sure they aren't pleased with a shrill Dale
Evans-wannabe such as yourself, either...

And in your previous whines about "torture," IIRC, you (and others) took
the position that it ("torture") simply didn't work as an effective
information-gathering method. Based on much of the recent hoopla and
your own cited site, waterboarding is a particularly effective method of
obtaining information that causes no actual physical harm...so, were you
(and others) wrong about "torture" being effective or are you wrong
about waterboarding being "torture?"

Naturally, in either case, you'll now publicly and unequivocally state
that you'd not want _any_ method used to gather information that even
_might_ be construed by _anyone_ as "torture" should you or anyone about
whom you care be in danger, right?

I mean, ask 'em nicely who or what their friends are planning to blow
up, and if they aren't feeling up to talking, get 'em a lawyer, some ice
creme, and if they ask politely enough, a "Lil' Jihadist Chemistry Set"
and a loaded weapon...

R

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:24:29 -0800, rw
wrote:

It's torture. Plain and simple.

I am so disgusted with our government.

Put it this way:

If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Torture is pain. There is no pain in waterboarding. And it lasts
only 25 seconds. If it saves lives, waterboard away.

Nice troll, btw. d;o)

LaCourse

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 08:38:45 -0500, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:24:29 -0800, rw
wrote:

It's torture. Plain and simple.

I am so disgusted with our government.

Put it this way:

If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Torture is pain.

Have you even been "tortured?" (and no, reading posts on ROFF doesn't
count...)

There is no pain in waterboarding.

Have you ever been waterboarded?

And it lasts only 25 seconds.

Not necessarily. It depends on the person being boarded and the
technique(s) used.

If it saves lives, waterboard away.

On that, we agree.

Nice troll, btw. d;o)

Hmmm...much like the definition of "torture," the definition of "nice"
seems to be a rather hard-to-pin-down target...

Happy Holidays,
R

LaCourse

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:50:41 GMT, wrote:

Have you even been "tortured?"

Yes!! While waiting for an oil change for my car, I was forced to
watch "View" starring fat-face-whats-her-name. shudder

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 08:38:45 -0500, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:24:29 -0800, rw
wrote:

It's torture. Plain and simple.

I am so disgusted with our government.

Put it this way:

If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Torture is pain.

Have you even been "tortured?" (and no, reading posts on ROFF doesn't
count...)

There is no pain in waterboarding.

Have you ever been waterboarded?

And it lasts only 25 seconds.

Not necessarily. It depends on the person being boarded and the
technique(s) used.

If it saves lives, waterboard away.

On that, we agree.

A truly sad comment.

I can only suppose that you wouldn't have problem with the so-called enemies
of the US torturing our troops at will as well. I mean it could save the
lives of our enemies troops.

Op



Nice troll, btw. d;o)

Hmmm...much like the definition of "torture," the definition of "nice"
seems to be a rather hard-to-pin-down target...

Happy Holidays,
R

LaCourse

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:42:32 -0500, "Opus--Mark H. Bowen"
wrote:

I can only suppose that you wouldn't have problem with the so-called enemies
of the US torturing our troops at will as well. I mean it could save the
lives of our enemies troops.

What are you talking about, nitwit. They ARE torturing our troops,
and not for info, but just for the pleasure of it. Where the hell
have you been for the past few years? I know you live in a backward
town in backward section of a great state, but surely they have tv,
radio, newspapers.

My neice's son was killed there last year. He was killed outright
while taking down a couple of al qaeda. His two friends were not so
lucky. They were captured and tortured to death.

Waterboarding causes NO pain, leaves NO mark, draws NO blood. OTOH,
cutting off the genitals and heads of our GI's DOES.

You're a fool, Mark. You can get all the formal education you desire,
but you will remain a fool and a looser until the day you die.

Davie

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:42:32 -0500, "Opus--Mark H. Bowen"
wrote:

I can only suppose that you wouldn't have problem with the so-called
enemies
of the US torturing our troops at will as well. I mean it could save the
lives of our enemies troops.

What are you talking about, nitwit. They ARE torturing our troops,
and not for info, but just for the pleasure of it. Where the hell
have you been for the past few years? I know you live in a backward
town in backward section of a great state, but surely they have tv,
radio, newspapers.


Imagine that? You're not one who holds with the ideals of liberal democracy
are you. Now I know that you will associate the word "liberal" with
political ideology, but that ain't got nothin' to do with what I am alluding
to. I mean you don't really abide with the precepts of constitutionalism, do
ya Davie?

Begin Quotes**
In Furman v. Georgia (1972), Justice Brennan wrote, "There are, then, four
principles by which we may determine whether a particular punishment is
'cruel and unusual'."

a.. The "essential predicate" is "that a punishment must not by its
severity be degrading to human dignity," especially torture.
b.. "A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary
fashion."
c.. "A severe punishment that is clearly and totally rejected throughout
society."
d.. "A severe punishment that is patently unnecessary."
Because it is the needless infliction of pain, torture is prohibited by the
Eighth Amendment--

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_...s_Constitution)

The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly
in 1984 and entered into force on June 26, 1987.

It defines torture as any act by which:
severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental; is intentionally
inflicted on a person; for such purposes as:

a.. obtaining from him/her or a third person information or a confession
b.. punishing him/her for an act s/he or a third person has committed or
is suspected of having committed
c.. intimidating or coercing him/her or a third person
d.. or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind;
when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with
the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in
an official capacity.*

*Amnesty International believes that acts of violence by private individuals
constitute torture when they are of the nature and severity envisaged by the
concept of torture in international standards and when the state has failed
to fulfill its obligation to provide effective protection against such acts
of
violence. --(http://www.amnestyusa.org/Reports_St...&n2=38&n3=1052)



"Lt. Col. V. Stuart Couch, a former Guantanamo Bay prosecutor and appellate
judge of the Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals, was scheduled to
appear before a House subcommittee today to testify about the use of
waterboarding and the legality of torture and other interrogation
techniques."

"In a March 31 Wall Street Journal story, Couch had said he had refused to
prosecute a suspected terrorist because he believed the evidence had been
tainted by torture."

""Waterboarding is torture, period," Malcolm Wrightson Nance, a former Navy
instructor of prisoner of war and terrorist hostage survival programs, said.
"I believe that we must reject the use of the waterboard for prisoners and
captives and cleanse this stain from our national honor.""
(http://wcbstv.com/national/hearing.w....2.563973.html)

End Quotes**

My neice's son was killed there last year. He was killed outright
while taking down a couple of al qaeda. His two friends were not so
lucky. They were captured and tortured to death.

Truly sad. But that does not mean that we, as a nation, should condone acts
of torture.

Many people, nations, and ideologies condone many different things that we,
as a nation, abhor and have made laws against, because we are a nation of
laws and recognize that vengeance is not justice.

Waterboarding causes NO pain, leaves NO mark, draws NO blood. OTOH,
cutting off the genitals and heads of our GI's DOES.

Torture is not merely defined by PAIN, it is also defined by SUFFERING,
whether physical/mental. (see quote from above)

You're a fool, Mark. You can get all the formal education you desire,
but you will remain a fool and a looser until the day you die.

I may very well be a fool, but I have the backing of people in the military,
who have been tortured, to support my argument. You, OTOH, have your hatred
to back your rantings.

My formal education has nothing to do with my beliefs concerning torture or
any other human rights, for that matter. I base my beliefs on morality and
decency. While as an agnostic, I *might* someday burn in hell. You certainly
will burn in hell (supposing of course that Christ ever existed), because
you are morally bankrupt and an anathema to Christ.

As long as I don't ever become what you are, I can accept being a loser in
your jaundiced eyes.

Op

Davie