OT - when politics gets personal

wrote in message
...
And on top that, if this scheme has no profit, who is gonna work for it,
how
are, ahem, medical labs gonna get paid, fancy new machines purchased, new
drugs
developed, etc.?

you don't need to run a profit in order to acquire state of the art
instrumentation for a lab. It happens all over the world, in other systems
of public healthcare. As for the drug development, I don't read of anyone
suggesting that the pharma industry become non-profit. Yet.
Tom

"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message
...
IMO a real
voter revolt against the two parties is the only thing that will solve
it. Are we capable of that? I don't know.

Jon.

I think such a process(No, I'm not talking about the Tea Party loons) is
being formulated by some VERY savvy players, at this very moment. One can
locate Lincoln Chafee's Op-Ed in the NY Times from last week and get a sense
for what might be going on. Remember, before the Obama campaign took off,
there was a movement called Unity08, involving Chuck Hagel, Evan Bayh and a
lot of other moderate, experienced pols, frustrated with the partisan BS. I
think you will see that effort return, with more cohesive aims and better
funding, before this year is out......
Tom

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:04:46 -0500, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
And on top that, if this scheme has no profit, who is gonna work for it,
how
are, ahem, medical labs gonna get paid, fancy new machines purchased, new
drugs
developed, etc.?

you don't need to run a profit in order to acquire state of the art
instrumentation for a lab.

Lab fairies? Oh, wait...do David Geffen and Elton John buy 'em and donate 'em?
If so, change that to "Provided by gracious donors"....

It happens all over the world, in other systems of public healthcare.

Ah - theft...

OTOH, I wish I could find it, but I saw a news story in the last coupla-three
months from, IIRC, a French news source that was about how taxation had become a
point of contention. Among those interviewed was a Parisian cab driver who made
what would be about 25K USD and who paid nearly 20% of that in taxes (and also
IIRC, about 10-15% was income-based taxes and 5-10% paid for health care). Now,
here's a "blue-collar" guy in one of the world's most expensive cities making
what some in the US would call very low wages, yet he still paid out about 20%
of his income in tax - would you think such would fly in the US? Can you think
of any pol of any party who would get up in public and say such needs to happen
here?

I decided to do a _quick_ search for it, and while I didn't find it, I did find
this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92419273

According to the above, the cabbie would have paid about 10% of the required 20
with the cab company picking up the other 10%.

As for the drug development, I don't read of anyone
suggesting that the pharma industry become non-profit. Yet.

Oh, yeah, now THERE'S a non-controversial subject...

TC,
R
Tom

Bill McKee wrote:
"Giles" wrote in message
...
On Feb 24, 1:12 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:

...ways to lower costs. Number one is increase the supply of
doctors....

Hm.....

So, the number of doctors in America has been falling precipitously in
recent decades.....and nobody told me?

g.
always the last to know.


Reply:
Population growth and very controlled numbers of prospective doctors
admitted to med school. And if you can not make enough money to justify the
$200k+ to get through doctor school, there will be even less doctors per
person in the country.



there's an easy remedy on the cost of med school tuition...and i suspect
you can figure it out. look at what we do for (to) teachers...etc.
yours is a non-argument for continuing the insane profit driven health
care system we are condemned to have in this country for the middle and
lower socio-economic class (i.e., majority). there has to be a better
way. i'm all for a tax, a restructure, something that assures
reasonable, affordable health care for our citizens.

jeff

"jeff" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Giles" wrote in message
...
On Feb 24, 1:12 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:

...ways to lower costs. Number one is increase the supply of
doctors....

Hm.....

So, the number of doctors in America has been falling precipitously in
recent decades.....and nobody told me?

g.
always the last to know.


Reply:
Population growth and very controlled numbers of prospective doctors
admitted to med school. And if you can not make enough money to justify
the $200k+ to get through doctor school, there will be even less doctors
per person in the country.

there's an easy remedy on the cost of med school tuition...and i suspect
you can figure it out. look at what we do for (to) teachers...etc. yours
is a non-argument for continuing the insane profit driven health care
system we are condemned to have in this country for the middle and lower
socio-economic class (i.e., majority). there has to be a better way. i'm
all for a tax, a restructure, something that assures reasonable,
affordable health care for our citizens.

jeff

But those nice life extending drugs, and devices are developed because of
the profit motive. Last job I had was part of a Bio-med company developing
a cure for stage 1 incontinence in women. Investors poured $45,000,000 in
to the company. Problem was bad management, and we failed in clinicals and
they may have recovered 3-4 million in the end. How many groups would bet
$45 million if not a prospect of gaining 4-5x that amount in the end?

"jeff" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Giles" wrote in message
...
On Feb 24, 1:12 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:

...ways to lower costs. Number one is increase the supply of
doctors....

Hm.....

So, the number of doctors in America has been falling precipitously in
recent decades.....and nobody told me?

g.
always the last to know.


Reply:
Population growth and very controlled numbers of prospective doctors
admitted to med school. And if you can not make enough money to justify
the $200k+ to get through doctor school, there will be even less doctors
per person in the country.

there's an easy remedy on the cost of med school tuition...and i suspect
you can figure it out. look at what we do for (to) teachers...etc. yours
is a non-argument for continuing the insane profit driven health care
system we are condemned to have in this country for the middle and lower
socio-economic class (i.e., majority). there has to be a better way. i'm
all for a tax, a restructure, something that assures reasonable,
affordable health care for our citizens.

jeff

Yes, make doctor school a free school for qualified people that agree to
spend a few years taking care of people for a decent professional salary for
a few years, before setting up private shop and getting what the traffic
will bear.

On Feb 25, 9:44*pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
"Giles" wrote in message

...
On Feb 24, 1:12 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:

...ways to lower costs. Number one is increase the supply of
doctors....

Hm.....

So, the number of doctors in America has been falling precipitously in
recent decades.....and nobody told me? * * * *

g.
always the last to know.

Reply:
Population growth and very controlled numbers of prospective doctors
admitted to med school.

Interesting reply. Bears a vague resemblance to sentence. Almost
looks like it might have something akin to meaning attached to it.

And if you can not make enough money to justify the
$200k+ to get through doctor school, there will be even less doctors per
person in the country.

This explains all the persons dressed in scrubs and surgical masks I
keep encountering in subways playing the banjo all over the woods up
here.

Idiot.

g.

On Feb 26, 10:57*pm, "CalifBill" wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message

...





Bill McKee wrote:
"Giles" wrote in message
....
On Feb 24, 1:12 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:

...ways to lower costs. Number one is increase the supply of
doctors....

Hm.....

So, the number of doctors in America has been falling precipitously in
recent decades.....and nobody told me? * * * *

g.
always the last to know.

Reply:
Population growth and very controlled numbers of prospective doctors
admitted to med school. *And if you can not make enough money to justify
the $200k+ to get through doctor school, there will be even less doctors
per person in the country.

there's an easy remedy on the cost of med school tuition...and i suspect
you can figure it out. look at what we do for (to) teachers...etc. yours
is a non-argument for continuing the insane profit driven health care
system we are condemned to have in this country for the middle and lower
socio-economic class (i.e., majority). *there has to be a better way. i'm
all for a tax, a restructure, something that assures reasonable,
affordable health care for our citizens.

jeff

But those nice life extending drugs, and devices are developed because of
the profit motive. *Last job I had was part of a Bio-med company developing
a cure for stage 1 incontinence in women. *Investors poured $45,000,000 in
to the company. *Problem was bad management, and we failed in clinicals and
they may have recovered 3-4 million in the end. *How many groups would bet
$45 million if not a prospect of gaining 4-5x that amount in the end?

Hm.....

So, pharmaceutical companies do not exist in Brazil, Canada, Columbia,
Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's
Republic of China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan,
Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands,
England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and
a host of other nations?

Pharmaceutical companies are not allowed to conduct research in
Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and
Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of China, Hong Kong, India,
Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany,
Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland,
Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other nations?

Pharmaceutical companies are not allowed to distribute their products
in Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and
Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of China, Hong Kong, India,
Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany,
Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland,
Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other nations?

Citizens are not allowed to invest in pharmaceutical companies in
Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and
Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of China, Hong Kong, India,
Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany,
Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland,
Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other nations?

Medical institutions are not allowed to conduct business with or stock
products from pharmaceutical companies in Brazil, Canada, Columbia,
Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's
Republic of China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan,
Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands,
England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and
a host of other nations?

Physicians are not allowed to prescribe medications developed, sold or
distributed by pharmaceutical companies in Brazil, Canada, Columbia,
Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's
Republic of China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan,
Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands,
England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and
a host of other nations?

Pharmacies are not allowed to purchase, stock, sell or otherwise
distribute materials developed, sold or otherwise distributed by
pharmaceutical companies in Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland,
Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of
China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark,
Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern
Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other
nations?

And nobody told me?

Moron.

g.

CalifBill wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"Giles" wrote in message
...
On Feb 24, 1:12 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:

...ways to lower costs. Number one is increase the supply of
doctors....
Hm.....

So, the number of doctors in America has been falling precipitously in
recent decades.....and nobody told me?

g.
always the last to know.


Reply:
Population growth and very controlled numbers of prospective doctors
admitted to med school. And if you can not make enough money to justify
the $200k+ to get through doctor school, there will be even less doctors
per person in the country.
there's an easy remedy on the cost of med school tuition...and i suspect
you can figure it out. look at what we do for (to) teachers...etc. yours
is a non-argument for continuing the insane profit driven health care
system we are condemned to have in this country for the middle and lower
socio-economic class (i.e., majority). there has to be a better way. i'm
all for a tax, a restructure, something that assures reasonable,
affordable health care for our citizens.

jeff

But those nice life extending drugs, and devices are developed because of
the profit motive. Last job I had was part of a Bio-med company developing
a cure for stage 1 incontinence in women. Investors poured $45,000,000 in
to the company. Problem was bad management, and we failed in clinicals and
they may have recovered 3-4 million in the end. How many groups would bet
$45 million if not a prospect of gaining 4-5x that amount in the end?



so...i reckon they don't have that stuff in canada, uk, france?

Giles wrote:
On Feb 26, 10:57 pm, "CalifBill" wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message

...





Bill McKee wrote:
"Giles" wrote in message
...
On Feb 24, 1:12 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
...ways to lower costs. Number one is increase the supply of
doctors....
Hm.....
So, the number of doctors in America has been falling precipitously in
recent decades.....and nobody told me?
g.
always the last to know.
Reply:
Population growth and very controlled numbers of prospective doctors
admitted to med school. And if you can not make enough money to justify
the $200k+ to get through doctor school, there will be even less doctors
per person in the country.
there's an easy remedy on the cost of med school tuition...and i suspect
you can figure it out. look at what we do for (to) teachers...etc. yours
is a non-argument for continuing the insane profit driven health care
system we are condemned to have in this country for the middle and lower
socio-economic class (i.e., majority). there has to be a better way. i'm
all for a tax, a restructure, something that assures reasonable,
affordable health care for our citizens.
jeff
But those nice life extending drugs, and devices are developed because of
the profit motive. Last job I had was part of a Bio-med company developing
a cure for stage 1 incontinence in women. Investors poured $45,000,000 in
to the company. Problem was bad management, and we failed in clinicals and
they may have recovered 3-4 million in the end. How many groups would bet
$45 million if not a prospect of gaining 4-5x that amount in the end?

Hm.....

So, pharmaceutical companies do not exist in Brazil, Canada, Columbia,
Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's
Republic of China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan,
Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands,
England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and
a host of other nations?

Pharmaceutical companies are not allowed to conduct research in
Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and
Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of China, Hong Kong, India,
Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany,
Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland,
Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other nations?

Pharmaceutical companies are not allowed to distribute their products
in Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and
Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of China, Hong Kong, India,
Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany,
Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland,
Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other nations?

Citizens are not allowed to invest in pharmaceutical companies in
Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and
Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of China, Hong Kong, India,
Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany,
Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland,
Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other nations?

Medical institutions are not allowed to conduct business with or stock
products from pharmaceutical companies in Brazil, Canada, Columbia,
Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's
Republic of China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan,
Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands,
England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and
a host of other nations?

Physicians are not allowed to prescribe medications developed, sold or
distributed by pharmaceutical companies in Brazil, Canada, Columbia,
Greenland, Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's
Republic of China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan,
Thailand, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands,
England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and
a host of other nations?

Pharmacies are not allowed to purchase, stock, sell or otherwise
distribute materials developed, sold or otherwise distributed by
pharmaceutical companies in Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Greenland,
Mexico, Peru, Trinidand and Tobago, Bhutan, The People's Republic of
China, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Denmark,
Finland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, England, Northern
Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand and a host of other
nations?


should have read the thread before responding to califbill... i don't
know the answers (hell, i don't know the questions), but
profit-incentive as driving reasonable healthcare isn't on my solution list.