First the Coho, now Apache and Gila

More outrageous manipulations to ignore science and
gut the Endangered Species Act.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/24/na...4species.html?

I cannot for the life of me ever figure out why so
many folks who claim to be concerned with protecting
our outdoor heritage can vote Republican.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote

I cannot for the life of me ever figure out why so
many folks who claim to be concerned with protecting
our outdoor heritage can vote Republican.





The Democratic Party called me last night asking for more money and I found
myself saying first, "I don't have any, my kid is going to college."

Pressed further I was amazed to find myself saying, "Well
it's more than just not having any. I'm tired of bitching as the major
action of the Party. Bush is THE worst president of my lifetime, we all
know that, even most Republicans know it. But the Democrats fail to see
that "anti-Bush" is not the leadership that will lead us out of the abyss.
This country needs positive leaders heading towards positive goals. Show
me a Democratic Party that really stands up and says 'This is what we stand
for' and one that works towards those goals instead of one that spends 99%
of it's resources on bitching and I'll find some money."

I truly believe that most people, regardless of voting history, are
dissatisfied with the idiot we have and his thug buddies. But that
dissatisfaction is proven to not be enough to lead to change. We need
leaders we can actively support, not just ones that 'aren't as bad as the
other guy.'

Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
I cannot for the life of me ever figure out why so
many folks who claim to be concerned with protecting
our outdoor heritage can vote Republican.

snip
I truly believe that most people, regardless of voting history, are
dissatisfied with the idiot we have and his thug buddies. But that
dissatisfaction is proven to not be enough to lead to change. We need
leaders we can actively support, not just ones that 'aren't as bad as the
other guy.'

Dream on. The American electorate, like any other, gets the
leaders it deserves. The average American voter is dumber than
a box of rocks and wouldn't know a good leader if one bit him
on the tit. Yeah, voting for the lesser of two evils is still
voting for evil but for the sake of your great-grandchildren
and theirs, you'd better hold your nose and vote these thugs
out before it's too late.

--
Ken Fortenberry

In article ,
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
I cannot for the life of me ever figure out why so
many folks who claim to be concerned with protecting
our outdoor heritage can vote Republican.

snip
I truly believe that most people, regardless of voting history, are
dissatisfied with the idiot we have and his thug buddies. But that
dissatisfaction is proven to not be enough to lead to change. We need
leaders we can actively support, not just ones that 'aren't as bad as the
other guy.'

Dream on. The American electorate, like any other, gets the
leaders it deserves. The average American voter is dumber than
a box of rocks and wouldn't know a good leader if one bit him
on the tit. Yeah, voting for the lesser of two evils is still
voting for evil but for the sake of your great-grandchildren
and theirs, you'd better hold your nose and vote these thugs
out before it's too late.

Perhaps because the Repulicans are the ones who aren't courting groups
like PETA... or the anti-gun lobby?

--
"What it all comes to is that the whole structure of space flight as it
stands now is creaking, obsolecent, over-elaborate, decaying. The field is
static; no, worse than that, it's losing ground. By this time, our ships
ought to be sleeker and faster, and able to carry bigger payloads. We ought
to have done away with this dichotomy between ships that can land on a planet,
and ships that can fly from one planet to another." - Senator Bliss Wagoner
James Blish - _They Shall Have Stars_

"Joe Ellis" wrote in message
...

Perhaps because the Repulicans are the ones who aren't courting groups
like PETA... or the anti-gun lobby?

It's as simple as that, huh?

Wolfgang
who sometimes wonders who takes upon themselves the thankless task of
reminding people as simple as that to breath from time to time.....and why.

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
I cannot for the life of me ever figure out why so
many folks who claim to be concerned with protecting
our outdoor heritage can vote Republican.

snip
I truly believe that most people, regardless of voting history, are
dissatisfied with the idiot we have and his thug buddies. But that
dissatisfaction is proven to not be enough to lead to change. We
need leaders we can actively support, not just ones that 'aren't as
bad as the other guy.'

Dream on. The American electorate, like any other, gets the
leaders it deserves. The average American voter is dumber than
a box of rocks and wouldn't know a good leader if one bit him
on the tit. Yeah, voting for the lesser of two evils is still
voting for evil but for the sake of your great-grandchildren
and theirs, you'd better hold your nose and vote these thugs
out before it's too late.

I think your statement speaks to Larry's argument. You say "vote these
thugs out" without Dems offering a good alternative to "vote IN". The
last election proved ABB is a bad plan for winning elections.

http://css.sbcma.com/timj/pics/kerry_notbush.jpg ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
I cannot for the life of me ever figure out why so
many folks who claim to be concerned with protecting
our outdoor heritage can vote Republican.

snip
I truly believe that most people, regardless of voting history, are
dissatisfied with the idiot we have and his thug buddies. But that
dissatisfaction is proven to not be enough to lead to change. We
need leaders we can actively support, not just ones that 'aren't as
bad as the other guy.'

Dream on. The American electorate, like any other, gets the
leaders it deserves. The average American voter is dumber than
a box of rocks and wouldn't know a good leader if one bit him
on the tit. Yeah, voting for the lesser of two evils is still
voting for evil but for the sake of your great-grandchildren
and theirs, you'd better hold your nose and vote these thugs
out before it's too late.

I think your statement speaks to Larry's argument. You say "vote these
thugs out" without Dems offering a good alternative to "vote IN".

If protecting the environment isn't a good enough reason for
an outdoorsman to "vote IN" then I am puzzled.

The
last election proved ABB is a bad plan for winning elections.

The last election proved my assertion that the average American
voter is dumber than a box of rocks. I don't know how to convince
the "dumber than a box of rocks" portion of the American electorate
to vote for their own self-interest, maybe you can shed some light
on that. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Tim J. wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
I cannot for the life of me ever figure out why so
many folks who claim to be concerned with protecting
our outdoor heritage can vote Republican.

snip
I truly believe that most people, regardless of voting history, are
dissatisfied with the idiot we have and his thug buddies. But
that dissatisfaction is proven to not be enough to lead to change.
We need leaders we can actively support, not just ones that
'aren't as bad as the other guy.'

Dream on. The American electorate, like any other, gets the
leaders it deserves. The average American voter is dumber than
a box of rocks and wouldn't know a good leader if one bit him
on the tit. Yeah, voting for the lesser of two evils is still
voting for evil but for the sake of your great-grandchildren
and theirs, you'd better hold your nose and vote these thugs
out before it's too late.

I think your statement speaks to Larry's argument. You say "vote
these thugs out" without Dems offering a good alternative to "vote
IN".

If protecting the environment isn't a good enough reason for
an outdoorsman to "vote IN" then I am puzzled.

The
last election proved ABB is a bad plan for winning elections.

The last election proved my assertion that the average American
voter is dumber than a box of rocks. I don't know how to convince
the "dumber than a box of rocks" portion of the American electorate
to vote for their own self-interest, maybe you can shed some light
on that. ;-)

I don't understand. G
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

On Tue, 24 May 2005 18:06:37 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

(snipped)

If protecting the environment isn't a good enough reason for
an outdoorsman to "vote IN" then I am puzzled.

I might have voted for Kerry. If I'd thought he meant anything he
said about the environment. It was close. I didn't think he was as
dumb as Bush (the trees are stealing our water) about it, but neither
did I have any reason to believe he had a clue or an urge about
protecting natural resources. And the one statement of his that I saw
/ heard on TV about the gun issue convinced me that he was pretty
clueless in general.

He just wasn't good enough to vote for. Had he won, I'd not have
wanted to be any part of the responsibility for his being president.
Despising Bush and the neo-cons just wasn't quite enough of a kicker.

I voted Libertarian. Or Grassroots. I've forgotten which (not due to
smoking anything interesting, either). They're my usual choices when
the major parties don't make me tingle. At least they come somewhat
close to showing my feelings about political platforms.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

Tim J. wrote:

I think your statement speaks to Larry's argument. You say "vote these
thugs out" without Dems offering a good alternative to "vote IN". The
last election proved ABB is a bad plan for winning elections.

If you get all your information from right-wing talk radio and Fox News,
it's understandable that you think Democrats have no position except ABB.

Here are a few of John Kerry's environmental policy positions, taken
from http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Kerry.htm#Environment

The Clear Skies bill is Orwellian and makes things worse. (Oct 2004)
Make environmental justice an EPA priority. (Oct 2003)
Voted NO on confirming Gale Norton as Secretary of Interior. (Jan 2001)
Voted NO on more funding for forest roads and fish habitat. (Sep 1999)
Voted YES on reducing funds for road-building in National Forests. (Sep
1997)
Voted YES on continuing desert protection in California. (Oct 1994)
Voted YES on requiring EPA risk assessments. (May 1994)
End commercial whaling and illegal trade in whale meat. (Jun 2001)
Fund studies of sustainable fisheries. (Oct 1996)
Fund studies of invasive species and algal blooms. (Mar 1998)

Kerry sponsored the Sustainable Fisheries Act of 1995, which:

* Amends the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act
to:Prohibit individual fishing quota programs unless approved before
January 4,
* Mandates guidelines regarding fish habitat conservation and enhancement.
* Modifies requirements regarding emergency actions (including
concerning oil spills) and adds to the emergency action provisions
references to interim measures needed to reduce overfishing.
* Provides for an information collection program specific to the needs
of a fishery.
* Requires a comprehensive program of fishery research to carry out this
Act;
* Requires developing technological changes to minimize bycatch and
evaluate related ecological impacts, benefits, and costs, and assess the
use of unavoidable bycatch; and
* Establishes of a fishery conservation and management ecosystem
advisory panel.








--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.