parachute worth question......

Here is a question and a fly design contest:

Well, ok. This might be a rigged contest, because I think I've already
got it won. In fact I think maybe I now have the best fly I've come up
with so far, at least in terms of projected ability to catch fishermen
at the fly bin.

Background:
About dry flies in general and parachute mayfly duns in particular,
if you sort a list of design-goal attributes according to their
overall relative importance, you might end up with a list
that looked something like the following:

Fish like to bite the fly
Speed and ease of tying
Floating performance
Overall design flexibility (no new construction technique
should
not limit material choices for the fly as a whole).
Realism
Beauty

You might quibble with the above importance sorting--some readers
might want to move realism a little higher up in the sorted importance
list. But the hierarchy does exist, even if there is no consensus on the
details.

Another way of looking at the above is to say the fly designer can make
a valuable contribution to the art even at the lowest, least important
design goal levels, like beauty and realism, as long as the new fly
design doesn't subtract value from any of the other attribute levels
further up in the overall importance hierarchy.

The corollary should be equally obvious: the higher up in the list any
hypothetical design change is made, the more important the new design is.

So here is my question: if you could design a new parachute mayfly dun
that was:

1) At least a little faster and easier to tie than a traditional
parachute
2) Makes the fly float at least a little better
3) No longer requires a stiff post wing on the top of the fly
(so now you can use CDC or duck flank fibers, or sparsely tied
and widely splayed synthetics for the wing instead of a stiff post)
4) Is more realistic, because the parachute hackle fibers are
mounted horizontally, on the bottom side of the thorax,
where the legs of the real insect are.
5) Results in a handsomer fly (well, let's just say I think it looks
better)

.......how much would that be worth?

I've been making flies like that look like that for a long time. The
first bottom-mounted parachute article I ever published was in Dick
Surette's Fly Tyer in 1979. I had another one published in Fly Fisherman
in the early 1990s.

But those flies were not in any way fast and easy to tie. In fact, until
recently, the bottom-mounted parachute flies I did make, although nice
to look at, were so time consuming to make they amounted to no more than
irrelevant fly tying amusements. The fact that articles like that (about
fancy-looking but hard to make mayflies) were publishable at all says
more about the magazines than the fly tier. But that's another
subject.

So I'll ask the question again in slightly modified form:
if you could make a bottom mounted parachute mayfly that did indeed
simultaneously and beneficially effect all of design goals 1-5 above, at
least a little in some categories and maybe a lot for others, how much
would that be worth?

Does that sound like a fly you'd like to make, and fly you'd
like to fish with?

"Sandy Pittendrigh" wrote in message
Does that sound like a fly you'd like to make, and fly you'd
like to fish with?

sure......I'm waiting, Sandy, as I strongly suspect a great
design in the offing...
Tom
p.s. I remember reading of your first version. Geez, are
we getting old!g

Tom Littleton wrote:
Tom
p.s. I remember reading of your first version. Geez, are
we getting old!g


Sux doesn't it. With any luck I'll have a fly tying
sequence online by the end of the weekend. But I do
have a leaky toilet to fix and the Baetis are hatching
on the Lower Madison RFN, so there's a lot to do this weekend.

Everything I said about that fly is true: damn good looking,
very easy to tie...you almost can't screw it up, floats
well too.

But there is a catch. You have to go online and buy some
ultra-thin 30 guage TEFLON tubing from an electronics supply house
first.
The TEFLON is used temporarily, during construction, and then removed.
http://www.action-electronics.com/teflontube.htm
.......hmmmm. I see they don't sell anything thinner than 26 guage.
That would probably work just fine. I'll have to try to find
a better 30 guage source.


Without the tubing this idea doesn't work at all. With it the bugs fly
off my vise faster than ever before. Placing the hackles on the
bottom side of the fly really does make the fly float better,
as well as look better. It's a big enough improvement you might
even be willing to spend more time making the fly just to get it.

To get those improvements in less time, rather than more,
is pretty slick.

"Sandy Pittendrigh" wrote in message
...
Tom Littleton wrote:
Tom
p.s. I remember reading of your first version. Geez, are
we getting old!g


Sux doesn't it. With any luck I'll have a fly tying
sequence online by the end of the weekend. But I do
have a leaky toilet to fix and the Baetis are hatching
on the Lower Madison RFN, so there's a lot to do this weekend.

Everything I said about that fly is true: damn good looking,
very easy to tie...you almost can't screw it up, floats
well too.

But there is a catch. You have to go online and buy some
ultra-thin 30 guage TEFLON tubing from an electronics supply house
first.
The TEFLON is used temporarily, during construction, and then removed.
http://www.action-electronics.com/teflontube.htm
......hmmmm. I see they don't sell anything thinner than 26 guage.
That would probably work just fine. I'll have to try to find
a better 30 guage source.


Without the tubing this idea doesn't work at all. With it the bugs fly
off my vise faster than ever before. Placing the hackles on the
bottom side of the fly really does make the fly float better,
as well as look better. It's a big enough improvement you might
even be willing to spend more time making the fly just to get it.

To get those improvements in less time, rather than more,
is pretty slick.

The use of superglue and teflon seems pretty interesting. Off the top of my
head, I can imagine lashing a teflon tube lengthwise along the bottom of a
hook by wrapping 'ribs' widely spaced with some stout thread, supergluing
along the top and letting it dry, then cutting a line down the 'belly' of
the fly and removing the teflon tube. It would leave a series of legs in
place very nicely. You could use a large gauge tube to make larger legs...

--riverman

The coolest super glue trick I've seen recently was what Dan Delekta
showed me a week or two ago.
He dubs his flies all the way out to the eye of the hook.
He never makes a whip finish. Instead, at the the last dubbing wrap,
he pauses momentarily and puts a drop of CA glue (he uses Krazy glue)
right onto the dubbing, on the thread. Then he makes that one last wrap,
waits 5 seconds and then snips off the thread. It's faster and easier
and it looks better, because there is no ugly thread head......it's
dubbing all the way.


Some more super glue tricks:

http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/...rangFlies.html

http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/...ue_step_3.html

"riverman" wrote

the fly and removing the teflon tube. It would leave a series of legs in
place very nicely. You could use a large gauge tube to make larger legs...



Just tie in a series of empty loops like you would make dubbing loops and
anchor each in place When the fly is otherwise finished snip the loops in
half and viola legs ( coat with flexament for best durability )

I really enjoy fishing flies tied in this way. I have been tying the Weamer
TruForm style flies, but anything that makes it faster is good by me.

Here's a first take on a photo sequence.....took about
an hour, from vise to camera to website.

http://www.montana-riverboats.com/Pa...lMayflies.html

Sandy Pittendrigh wrote:
Here's a first take on a photo sequence.....took about
an hour, from vise to camera to website.

http://www.montana-riverboats.com/Pa...lMayflies.html


One thing I like about parachute patterns is that they float lower in
the film than "conventionally" hackled flies.. Wouldn't your
bottom-mounted pattern float higher than an "ordinary" parachute fly?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Yes, it does float a little higher--more like
the natural, not-crippled dun.
So you probably wouldn't like this fly.
I'm sure of it, in fact.

======
From my perspective I have a new technique for making
an old fly. I have been making them for many years.
But it used to be long and arduous process.
Now it's a snap.

I personally don't believe pattern matters that much
anyway. When there is no hatch you use attractors.

When there is a hatch you need a fly that looks
vaguely correct. But it's even more important to
change flies a lot......at least each time you
get refused. What I like about this fly is
that is floats so well, and now, all of a sudden,
it's very quick and easy to tie.