in defense of Tim

Tim has a point of view about C&R. It's a pretty extreme point of view,
and not one I share wholeheartedly by any means, but it has a logical
consistency, even if he does undermine his case with some bogus
factoids. It's made me think about what I'm doing.

At least 95% of the fishing I do is C&R. I might conceivably catch 30 to
50 fish in a day if I worked at it (on a really good day), but that
"score" wouldn't reflect the quality of the fishing, and I'm not
interested in it. I like the memory of one or two good fish hooked and
landed in a perfect spot, maybe with a difficult presentation, where I
could actually foresee the whole thing playing out ahead of time. That
is trout fishing Nirvana to me.

Think about it, C&R ROFF fishermen. Don't count fish. Quit and be
satisfied once you feel good about the outing. Enjoy the scenery. Take
some photos. That's a point where Tim is correct, I believe, but he
doesn't express it in those terms.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

In article , rw56
says...
Tim has a point of view about C&R. It's a pretty extreme point of view,
and not one I share wholeheartedly by any means, but it has a logical
consistency, even if he does undermine his case with some bogus
factoids. It's made me think about what I'm doing.

At least 95% of the fishing I do is C&R. I might conceivably catch 30 to
50 fish in a day if I worked at it (on a really good day), but that
"score" wouldn't reflect the quality of the fishing, and I'm not
interested in it. I like the memory of one or two good fish hooked and
landed in a perfect spot, maybe with a difficult presentation, where I
could actually foresee the whole thing playing out ahead of time. That
is trout fishing Nirvana to me.

Think about it, C&R ROFF fishermen. Don't count fish. Quit and be
satisfied once you feel good about the outing. Enjoy the scenery. Take
some photos. That's a point where Tim is correct, I believe, but he
doesn't express it in those terms.

Funny thing is, no one disagrees with this aspect. Odd thing is, if
I'm fishing to keep fish, I'll keep fishing until I limit out.
I've had 50+ C&K fishing day, but I doubt if I've ever had more
than a 15 fish C&R day. If I'm fishing just to fish, I don't count
fish. I just enjoy fishing. If it's too easy, I'll try for the perfect
presentation or try to get the fly into a difficult location or even
just sit and watch the scenery.

If he'd just get out of the ethical/moral BS, I doubt many of us
would disagree. I still hope to fish with Timmy someday.....and
I'm much nicer on usenet than I am in person. ;-)
- Ken

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:48:03 -0700, wrote:

If he'd just get out of the ethical/moral BS, I doubt many of us
would disagree. I still hope to fish with Timmy someday.....and
I'm much nicer on usenet than I am in person. ;-)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Evil Ken says just the opposite....... ummm,
and he is.

I once broke the point off on a Goddard Caddis but continued to fish
it. I would set the "hook" on every rise and experience that first
pull or resistance before the fish was off and away. I fished that
fly for an hour, very satisfied in the 0 fish landed results.

Dave

rw typed:
snip
Think about it, C&R ROFF fishermen. Don't count fish. Quit and be
satisfied once you feel good about the outing. Enjoy the scenery. Take
some photos. That's a point where Tim is correct, I believe, but he
doesn't express it in those terms.

I'm satisfied with the outing (which have been *far* too few this year)
before I start fishing. I spend far more time walking and looking, and my
fishing skills, at least compared to the lies. . . er, stories told here,
are very sub-par. Come to think of it, I catch fewer fish on most outings
than my partners, but it's never bothered me - and my partners appreciate
it. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

rw wrote in news:44ced7c2$0$24211
:

Tim has a point of view about C&R. It's a pretty extreme point of view,
and not one I share wholeheartedly by any means, but it has a logical
consistency, even if he does undermine his case with some bogus
factoids. It's made me think about what I'm doing.

A logical consistency, but if you think about his experience with
competitive bass fishing, an actual hypocrisy.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Dave LaCourse wrote in
:

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:48:03 -0700, wrote:

If he'd just get out of the ethical/moral BS, I doubt many of us
would disagree. I still hope to fish with Timmy someday.....and
I'm much nicer on usenet than I am in person. ;-)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Evil Ken says just the opposite....... ummm,
and he is.

I once broke the point off on a Goddard Caddis but continued to fish
it. I would set the "hook" on every rise and experience that first
pull or resistance before the fish was off and away. I fished that
fly for an hour, very satisfied in the 0 fish landed results.

Dave








One hook maker used to offer TAG, or touch and go hooks, with an eye at
each end.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

rw wrote:

Tim has a point of view about C&R. It's a pretty extreme point of view,
and not one I share wholeheartedly by any means, but it has a logical
consistency, even if he does undermine his case with some bogus
factoids. It's made me think about what I'm doing.

At least 95% of the fishing I do is C&R. I might conceivably catch 30 to
50 fish in a day if I worked at it (on a really good day), but that
"score" wouldn't reflect the quality of the fishing, and I'm not
interested in it. I like the memory of one or two good fish hooked and
landed in a perfect spot, maybe with a difficult presentation, where I
could actually foresee the whole thing playing out ahead of time. That
is trout fishing Nirvana to me.

Think about it, C&R ROFF fishermen. Don't count fish. Quit and be
satisfied once you feel good about the outing. Enjoy the scenery. Take
some photos. That's a point where Tim is correct, I believe, but he
doesn't express it in those terms.

The previous paragraph describes a fishing trip for me pretty well.
Maybe it's because I don't get out as much as I'd like (and if this
fricking drought keeps up, I may never get out down here), but the
planning, tying flies, packing, traveling, etc. are all a big part of
the experience.

Then when I'm on the water I force myself to slow down and take in
everything around me. On one trip I adopted the approach that when I
came to a nice-looking spot, I would sit down by the water, soak in the
surroundings, get my camera out and snap a few pictures or have a cig
before I made a cast.

It added to the experience, and I think I caught more fish that way.
In this skinny water with spooky fish, I believe I gave them time to
re-adjust and get comfortable if they detected any movement on my part
when I approached the water.

However, I do count fish ... the *first* one. After that, it's all
gravy, IMHO.


Chuck Vance

"rw" wrote in message
m...

Think about it, C&R ROFF fishermen. Don't count fish. Quit and be
satisfied once you feel good about the outing. Enjoy the scenery. Take
some photos. That's a point where Tim is correct, I believe, but he
doesn't express it in those terms.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Well I'm one who quits once I'm satisfied. I could have caught a lot more
fish in my Alaska adventure, but the last two days of my journey, I was
satisfied with five or less a day. I believe someone in this newsgroup
mentioned, it's not the quantity and I'll have to agree with that. After
awhile, it becomes redundant. For me today, I can be happy if I caught only
two fish in a day, one to release, and one to keep for dinner.

On the last day of my adventure tour, I wanted to test my skills where I was
looking for an area unfished, where I could see the rainbow I wanted to
catch. I wadded into an area that I thought I could make a good presentation
with a dry-fly on a lightweight leader and tippet. I remember standing still
in the current for 15 minutes before I made the cast. I only wanted to make
one cast. The rainbow seemed to be large, at least in viewing. I had my
line in coils in my left hand to keep free of the current as I slowly made
my false cast, using slightly larger loops than I'm used to throwing to make
extra sure I wouldn't tangle. I made six false cast and on the seventh made
my delicate presentation forty-five feet away. Everything looked like it
was in slow motion as the fly landed ever so natural. About five seconds
later, but what seemed like eternity, the rainbow took the fly. My heart
was pounding fast knowing I needed to set the hook and take control before
losing it. Large Alaskan Leopard Rainbows you never feel you have control
until they're in the net as they will always put up a great fight. I'll
admit I over played him, but he was our dinner, all 5 1/2 pounds. I always
like to check out the fly-set on the rainbows after I bring them in and it
gives me great pleasure when they're near perfect sets. After my catch, I
packed up, brought out the folding chair, popped the last of the beer that
had been kept cold from the riverwater attached to the bottom of our boat.
My friend looked at me as if he wanted to say something, but before he did,
I told him I was done for day without ever glancing up. I think he
understood.
fwiw,
-tom

"rw" wrote in message
m...
Tim has a point of view about C&R. It's a pretty extreme point of view,
and not one I share wholeheartedly by any means, but it has a logical
consistency,

Tim has been saying the same thing here for 10+ years so he has certainly
been consistent. To describe that consistency as logical is very generous.
Tim has been at his best in his critique (dare I say satire?) of the modern
catch and release ethos, pointed, challenging stuff anyone should think
about. But when he goes beyond just telling us what's wrong with impaling
dozens of fish with hooks every day, there are some problems.

Examples:

slot limits
minimum size limits
PETA and similar group accepting harvest only angling
just the plain ordinary messy world

.... just what do fisheries managers do with the limited tools available and
what the angling public will accept?

Here's a recent example. Tim etc have argued for years that if the number of
fish in a fishery cannot accept some harvest it should be closed and catch
and release should not be used as a conservation method.

We've had that conundrum here in British Columbia with some steelhead
streams. Used to be that about 200 fish per year was considered adequate to
allow a c&r fishery but many have dropped to 50 to 100 for several years.
They were closed management arguing we no fish could be spared to c&r
mortality. Trouble is this didn't stop the poachers and poaching increased!
Unable to fish at all some people fished illegally and killed what they
caught - no other honest anglers were around to complain. Many more fish
died than would have to c&r mortality. So now they are reopening streams
just to have a presence of honest anglers that will discourage poaching

cheers.

--

Some of my angling snaps:

http://gallery.fishbc.com/gallery/vi...bumName=RalphH

"RalphH" wrote ...

Some of my angling snaps:

http://gallery.fishbc.com/gallery/vi...bumName=RalphH

Nice pics, Ralph. Where's Ruby Lake?

Dan