Sunken 'float'

The klinkhammer photo reminded me of Brook's 'tied in the round' theory.

This would probably be more on topic over at the tying list but

Does anybody have thoughts and ideas on ways to make sure that two tone
nymph patterns actually 'float' near the bottom top side up?

Nymph patterns with backstraps of PT ( or other) and bellies of fur or other
look great in the vise, but tumbling in the currents?

Related query: good ways to build 'wide bodied' nymphs .... rhithrogena
for instance are very wide and thin, round is not an accurate body shape.
I'm think that one of you bright lads or ladies might have practical ideas
that would make it easy to both improve the shape of clinger/crawler nymph
ties and stabilize their 'float' right side up at the same time?


Sandy? Littleton? other sharp tacks out there ?

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
The klinkhammer photo reminded me of Brook's 'tied in the round' theory.

This would probably be more on topic over at the tying list but

Does anybody have thoughts and ideas on ways to make sure that two tone
nymph patterns actually 'float' near the bottom top side up?

Flies will naturally tend to ride top side up by virtue of the fact that
whatever materials are used have a lower density than the steel of the hook.
The bend and point, being bare, also experience less drag and will tend to
keep the whole thing upright.

Nymph patterns with backstraps of PT ( or other) and bellies of fur or
other look great in the vise, but tumbling in the currents?

Tumbling in currents, artificals will do pretty much what naturals
do.....tumble.

Related query: good ways to build 'wide bodied' nymphs .... rhithrogena
for instance are very wide and thin, round is not an accurate body shape.
I'm think that one of you bright lads or ladies might have practical
ideas that would make it easy to both improve the shape of clinger/crawler
nymph ties and stabilize their 'float' right side up at the same time?

Don't remember any specific references, but a lot of the old pros
experimented with strips of various materials for a shaped underbodies.
I've done a little of this myself. There is a virtually infinite selection
of plastics to choose from these days, so materials aren't a real problem.
The trouble has always been proper shaping and, more importantly, firm
attachment to the hook and covering with the material of choice without
undue deformation. Interesting stuff to mess around with but, quite
frankly, generally not worth the trouble in terms of productivity. The same
kinds of effects can also be arrived at with putties, epoxies, caulk, and
other liquids or semi-liquids......with similar results and caveats.

Not surprisingly, discussions of such techniques usually lead to unpleasant
exchanges about what constitutes "fly fishing."

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote



Tumbling in currents, artificals will do pretty much what naturals
do.....tumble.

LIVING naturals would tend to try and resist tumbling I'd think ( I would if
I were one ;-) and use their legs and such to fight for uprightedness



Interesting stuff to mess around with but, quite frankly, generally not
worth the trouble in terms of productivity.


I firmly believe that "having fun" is a major product of any hobby ( or good
job,ftm ) and nothing is as much fun as learning. Thus, "interesting
stuff" implies "fun" and "fun" infers "productive" when a major product is
having a good time ! I meet many people im my travels that seem to limit
the goal of fly fishing to the "fun of catching fish" .... there are many,
Many, MANY ways to increase the "productivity" of the sport beyond that
narrow view.



Not surprisingly, discussions of such techniques usually lead to
unpleasant exchanges about what constitutes "fly fishing."


Crap, we started by talking about nymphing, so we're already beyond the
realm of 'real' fly fishing :-)

Oh, and, it IS possible to separate discuss from unpleasant ... honest g

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" wrote



Tumbling in currents, artificals will do pretty much what naturals
do.....tumble.

LIVING naturals would tend to try and resist tumbling I'd think ( I would
if I were one ;-) and use their legs and such to fight for uprightedness

Doubtless. When I take a step onto something that isn't there, I do my
damndest to resist gravity.

Interesting stuff to mess around with but, quite frankly, generally not
worth the trouble in terms of productivity.


I firmly believe that "having fun" is a major product of any hobby ( or
good job,ftm ) and nothing is as much fun as learning. Thus,
"interesting stuff" implies "fun" and "fun" infers "productive" when a
major product is having a good time ! I meet many people im my travels
that seem to limit the goal of fly fishing to the "fun of catching fish"
.... there are many, Many, MANY ways to increase the "productivity" of the
sport beyond that narrow view.

O.k.

Not surprisingly, discussions of such techniques usually lead to
unpleasant exchanges about what constitutes "fly fishing."


Crap, we started by talking about nymphing, so we're already beyond the
realm of 'real' fly fishing :-)

Oh, and, it IS possible to separate discuss from unpleasant ... honest g

You're welcome.

Wolfgang

"Larry L" wrote in
:

LIVING naturals would tend to try and resist tumbling I'd think ( I
would if I were one ;-) and use their legs and such to fight for
uprightedness


A swimming nymph might have a shot, but a clinger or digger would just
tumble, I think.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Larry L" wrote in
:

Related query: good ways to build 'wide bodied' nymphs ....
rhithrogena for instance are very wide and thin, round is not an
accurate body shape. I'm think that one of you bright lads or ladies
might have practical ideas that would make it easy to both improve
the shape of clinger/crawler nymph ties and stabilize their 'float'
right side up at the same time?


When I weave nymphs, I go out of my way to make sure the materials being
woven line up on the sides of the hook when tied down. This, with some
underbody thread work, plus the idea of the knots along the sides of the
weave slightly widening things, make a nice flat fly.

Also, you can use lead as many usually do, and just squash it flat with
pliers.

Then, Wolfie's suggestion of tying materials along the sides just for shape
makes a lot of sense.

There are also commercially available nymph bodies, I think.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote



When I weave nymphs,


I like they way some of those woven patterns look, but I don't have that
kind of patience and detxiertyi ( **** it's hard typing with all these
thumbs )



Also, you can use lead as many usually do, and just squash it flat with
pliers.


I have a Humphreys video where he wraps lead over cotton and then flattens
the mess, as an underbody. He uses flat lead foil, I tried it with round
fly shop not-lead and didn't have results that pleased me

I have a Humphreys video where he wraps lead over cotton and then flattens
the mess, as an underbody. He uses flat lead foil, I tried it with round
fly shop not-lead and didn't have results that pleased me

Your local golf course or golf supply store will probably have some
flat lead made for wrappping on clubs.

vince

"vincent p. norris" wrote

Your local golf course or golf supply store will probably have some
flat lead made for wrappping on clubs.

vince


Thanks Vince,

but I fish lead-free

heck, I even participated in volunteer steel shot studies to test for gun
damage and crippling increases for several years before steel shot became
'the law" for waterfowling

every little bit helps when lots of people do that little bit

On Apr 7, 10:44 am, "Larry L" wrote:
"vincent p. norris" wrote

Your local golf course or golf supply store will probably have some
flat lead made for wrappping on clubs.

vince

Thanks Vince,

but I fish lead-free

heck, I even participated in volunteer steel shot studies to test for gun
damage and crippling increases for several years before steel shot became
'the law" for waterfowling

every little bit helps when lots of people do that little bit

what if... instead of lead you tied a tid bit of steel wire on the
belly of the hook before you start. Depending on the pattern it might
look a mess, but for a fat maggot pattern it would be ok.
Another alternative might be (on bead head patterns) is to tie on a
wee small bit of cut foam to the top. But not so much as to float the
fly.

This is n interesting problem, as more and more folks are fishing lead
free.... its hard to fins a pliable metal that isn't lead.

Perhaps you caould also try scuffing the bottom of the hook shank with
sand paper, then put on a bit of lead free solder.... let it drip to
the bottom side of the shank and begin the tie after cooloing?


Just a few ideas that popped out of my twisted brain.

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