Christmas rods etc etc

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mu Young Lee"
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 10:29 PM
Subject: Christmas, rods, etc etc


On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Mike Connor wrote:

Anybody having trouble with "balance" or "feel" should experiment in this
direction. Some beginners have been quite astounded at the difference this
makes.

related item, see:

http://www.anglersroost.net/BThandle.html


That is basically exactly what I do. Thanks for the link!

Some reels designed to address such problems;
http://www.mullockmadeley.co.uk/auct...es/391_jpg.jpg

http://www.mullockmadeley.co.uk/auct...es/392_jpg.jpg

http://www.mullockmadeley.co.uk/auct...es/393_jpg.jpg

My modifications are in a similar vain. This is the only severe
problem on my favourite reel however. Owing to the lever action of
the Vivarelli, I am obliged to grip the rod further up the butt above
the reel in order to operate the lever. This is a considerable
nuisance. I have not yet found any way to alleviate the problem, but I
am working on it.

TL
MC

"Greg Pavlov" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
On 4 Dec 2003 15:33:13 -0800, (Mike Connor)
wrote:



Some reels designed to address such problems;
http://www.mullockmadeley.co.uk/auct...es/391_jpg.jpg


That's funny,that is *exactly* what I've envisioned, a spinning
reel arrangement, and what I was thinking about when I said
the following in another thread yesterday:

......For such
gear especially, I've wondered whether ff'ing gear
manufacturers wouldn't have switched to a below-the-
hand geometry a long time ago if they and ff'men
weren't caught up in convention..

THe one thing that this spinning gear-style foot may require,
though, if you expect to shoot line, is much larger stripping
guides than normal. Most fly rod stripping guides (and most
of the guides, actually) are smaller than ideal as it is, and
the dropped-down reel increases the angle of the line even
further.



Sorry, I have not been seeing all the threads recently, and only looked in
occasionally anyway.

Convention is responsible for many problems. Most people simply accept the
conventions, without thinking much about them. This is inevitably derogatory
to their fishing.

Furthermore, many have fixed views on the aesthetics of various equipment
and it´s combination. This effectively prevents them from using the best
tools and techniques for the job.

The angle of the line from the reel to the stripping guide is completely
irrelevant, as line is shot from the hand, not from the reel. Indeed, the
offset reel close to the hand, in the right position on the butt, makes it
easier to strip line off the reel as well, without "wobbling" etc. Because
the pull is also at a better angle, more "direct" if you will, against the
reel/rod hand. Line wear, and reel guide wear, are also very considerably
reduced. The reel is not "dropped down" but is indeed almost level with the
hand, if not actually level ( assuming in this case that the rod is
perpendicular). It stands off slightly more from the reel seat, but this is
also of advantage, as the hand fits between the reel and the seat without a
problem. This grip is very comfortabe, and efficient.

The size of stripping guides, and whether to use one or two, is indeed a
moot point, but for different reasons. Line "funnelling" is rather better
with two stripping guides correctly placed. This can add a little distance,
especially when distance casting, and the shoot tends to be smoother anyway.

A rod and reel built to the aforementioned specifications, looks "odd" when
seen next to a "standard" rod and reel, but only because of the widely
spread preconceived notions in this regard. This combination is however a
far superior set of equipment, and much more efficient and pleasant to use,
as anyone who has tried it will immediately attest, and without further ado.
Even complete beginners cast noticeably better with such a rig, and for
experienced casters, it is a joy to use.

TL
MC

I posted some photos from the book I mentioned by James Evans on ABPF.
Showing the butt length, the "saddle" on the reel seat etc.

The "extension" behind the butt is a light alloy "bank spear", used for
placing the rod vertical in the bank, grass etc. This is extremely useful
when changing flies, having lunch, etc etc, and will save anybody treading
on your rod, among a host of other uses.

The butt/reel combination in the photos is even longer than mine, ( have to
take a photo of mine), as the reel on my rods sits exactly level with my
hand. That is to say, my little finger sits below the reel seat, and the
other fingers above it. This is of course only possible with an "offset"
reel seat, like those in the links I posted.

The butt length, including the reel seat, ( but excluding the "spear"), in
the photos is 7 1/4 ". My butts, including the reel seat, are only five
inches long. The offset reel allows this easily. People with larger hands
might need a little more butt length. But rarely more than about 6...7
inches, as you will see if you measure your hands.

Most "standard" butts on "standard" commercial rods are about 12" long!!!!
This automatically precludes a correct and comfortable grip. It might "look
nice", but it is a major hindrance for most people.

TL
MC

Sorry again! Think I posted to your e-mail by mistake!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Pavlov"
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 6:25 AM
Subject: Christmas rods etc etc


On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:38:10 GMT, "Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote:


The angle of the line from the reel to the stripping guide is completely
irrelevant, as line is shot from the hand, not from the reel. ...

Sorry, I was thinking of one thing and said something
completely diffferent. I was thinking of shooting heads
and dead-to-running line loops, etc, and what happens
when these have to be pulled through the guides quickly
in one direction or another. Last spring I had worked a
striped bass close to shore when it made a last run. I
hadn't realized that I had a kink in the loop-to-loop
connection between my shooting head & running line
and it caught for a very long second or two on one of
the guides. That's the sort of thing I was thinking about.


I see what you mean, but the reel/guide angle, really does not make much
difference here. If you have a loop, knot etc, then it will likely catch
somewhere anyway, especially if you use snake intermediates.

Indeed, the
offset reel close to the hand, in the right position on the butt, makes
it
easier to strip line off the reel as well, without "wobbling" etc.

Yeah, as I said in the same post yesterday, but about
spinning reels, ""WIth the hand directly over the reel, it is
also easier to counteract the force you produce cranking
in line, especially if you're doing it quickly or pulling against
significant weight..."


Shame I did not see the original post. I can´t find it on google. Not to
worry! It will doubtless turn up eventually. My new news provider had over
42,000 posts on ROFF, and so I hit the "catch up" button!

. The reel is not "dropped down" but is indeed almost level with the
hand, if not actually level

It's "dropped down" below the reel seat, more than the usual
fly reel.


Merely a case of definition here. Some of these expressions are very
ambiguous. The reel "stands further off the reel seat" seems clearer. The
photos on ABPF don´t show this of course. If I get time tomorrow, I will
take a picture. The pictures in the original links I sent are clear enough
though, I think?

The combination of the shortened butt, "saddled" reel seat, and the "offset"
reel, alow one a perfect grip, level with the reel. This solves a surprising
number of problems, amd has no disadvantages whatsoever! ( Unless you happen
to like Vivarellis!!!! Or some other automatics! )

TL
MC