OT- political...only for republicans

"And where, in all of this, are the responsible Republicans, leaders who
will stand up and say that some partisans are going too far? Nowhere to
be found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/op...e&ref=homepage

On Aug 30, 5:04*pm, jeff wrote:
"And where, in all of this, are the responsible Republicans, leaders who
will stand up and say that some partisans are going too far? Nowhere to
be found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/op...l?_r=1&src=me&....

....yawn...

oz

MajorOz wrote:
jeff wrote:
"And where, in all of this, are the responsible Republicans, leaders who
will stand up and say that some partisans are going too far? Nowhere to
be found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/op...l?_r=1&src=me&...

...yawn...

Really. I mean "responsible Republican" is a contradiction in terms.
Diogenes could have found unicorns, leprechauns and the tooth fairy
before he ever found a "responsible Republican".

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Aug 30, 5:04*pm, jeff wrote:
"And where, in all of this, are the responsible Republicans, leaders who
will stand up and say that some partisans are going too far? Nowhere to
be found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/op...l?_r=1&src=me&....

Uh, how 'bout us moderates? Are we allowed in the discourse?
We have a resurgence of the power of the labor unions, such as SEIU,
with government support. I had never heard of either ACORN or SEIU
till 3 years ago and now they have incredible power with the requisite
abuse. The cost of running a city is skyrocketing because unions won't
budge. The fire and police department here in Omaha are run by unions
that are spiking their pay and refuse to allow a change. They also
have enough politicians in their pockets that their affecting the
agenda.
I'm not seeing a lot of leadership and I'm also seeing the same deal
of "if you're against the president, then you're unAmerican." Bull.
The rise in government workers is another thing that is scaring me.
More and more folks in the government and we all know that the most
costly thing in any business is the manpower. Who's going to pay for
this? Yes, granted, the pay is not as good as the private sector for
equivalent work so quite often, you're not gonna get that top
performer. This causes more problems. "Grade inflation" is rampant.
I've seen folks getting the title and duty of "engineer" with a 2 year
degree (check out the help wanted adds and you'll find tons of this).
And when a system doesn't work as planned, they're stymied. Then they
have to backtrack or call in folks who can fix it, doubling or
trebling the cost.
A few years ago, I was termed a "liberal." Now I'm considered right
wing. Why? I'm retired military so I must be some right wing nut.
Those that are being called liberals are so far from the middle
(Pelosi and crew), they're in a whole nother world. Oh, by the way,
they have the power. I'm so sick and tired of "big corporations and
banks are bad." Bull. They happen to make a lot of the useless crap
we buy. They employ tons of people. Now those folks are out of a
job. Screw that. I'm just sick and tired of the animosity caused by
this divergence from the middle. Folks are toooooooo far to the right
and left and the rest of us are stuck with scary policies. There is
no balance. It would be the same with the Limbaugh crowd. Just
another screaming fringe telling us the other side is evil whilst
raping the rest of us.

Frank "the Mad Middle" Reid
and oh by the way, that friggen editorial was nothing but a bunch of
hand wringing and whining. Where are the Dem's that want to stand up
and say "enough's enough?"

Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:
Uh, how 'bout us moderates? Are we allowed in the discourse?

Unfortunately, yes you are.

We have a resurgence of the power of the labor unions, such as SEIU,
with government support. I had never heard of either ACORN or SEIU
till 3 years ago and now they have incredible power with the requisite
abuse.

Good lord. One cannot even begin to address ignorance of this
magnitude. ACORN has incredible power ? Unions are resurgent ?
I can only surmise that you *want* to be ignorant because you
could easily learn for yourself the absurdity of both of those
propositions.

Here's a good place for a moderate to start reading:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...0fa_fact_mayer

Good luck.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 2010-08-30 19:15:08 -0400, Frank Reid � 2010 said:

On Aug 30, 5:04Â*pm, jeff wrote:
"And where, in all of this, are the responsible Republicans, leaders who
will stand up and say that some partisans are going too far? Nowhere to
be found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/op...l?_r=1&src=me&
...

Uh, how 'bout us moderates? Are we allowed in the discourse?
We have a resurgence of the power of the labor unions, such as SEIU,
with government support. I had never heard of either ACORN or SEIU
till 3 years ago and now they have incredible power with the requisite
abuse. The cost of running a city is skyrocketing because unions won't
budge. The fire and police department here in Omaha are run by unions
that are spiking their pay and refuse to allow a change. They also
have enough politicians in their pockets that their affecting the
agenda.
I'm not seeing a lot of leadership and I'm also seeing the same deal
of "if you're against the president, then you're unAmerican." Bull.
The rise in government workers is another thing that is scaring me.
More and more folks in the government and we all know that the most
costly thing in any business is the manpower. Who's going to pay for
this? Yes, granted, the pay is not as good as the private sector for
equivalent work so quite often, you're not gonna get that top
performer. This causes more problems. "Grade inflation" is rampant.
I've seen folks getting the title and duty of "engineer" with a 2 year
degree (check out the help wanted adds and you'll find tons of this).
And when a system doesn't work as planned, they're stymied. Then they
have to backtrack or call in folks who can fix it, doubling or
trebling the cost.
A few years ago, I was termed a "liberal." Now I'm considered right
wing. Why? I'm retired military so I must be some right wing nut.
Those that are being called liberals are so far from the middle
(Pelosi and crew), they're in a whole nother world. Oh, by the way,
they have the power. I'm so sick and tired of "big corporations and
banks are bad." Bull. They happen to make a lot of the useless crap
we buy. They employ tons of people. Now those folks are out of a
job. Screw that. I'm just sick and tired of the animosity caused by
this divergence from the middle. Folks are toooooooo far to the right
and left and the rest of us are stuck with scary policies. There is
no balance. It would be the same with the Limbaugh crowd. Just
another screaming fringe telling us the other side is evil whilst
raping the rest of us.

Frank "the Mad Middle" Reid
and oh by the way, that friggen editorial was nothing but a bunch of
hand wringing and whining. Where are the Dem's that want to stand up
and say "enough's enough?"

clap clap clap Well said, Frank.

I was a JFK liberal way back when. The very first thing he did was cut
taxes and revenues soared. Then he gave the military one helluva nice
raise.

What we have now are NOT JFK liberals. They're socialists. Soon they
will run out of money - mine and yours. Then wtf is going to happen?

If Obama abolishes the Bush tax cuts, watch what happens - it ain't
gonna be good. If fools like Fortenberry want to give more, well, by
all means, give it. And if you pray, pray for Obama's good health; we
do not need the idiot Biden taking over.

As far as Limbaugh and Beck - they make their living off of
controversy. Their positions are OPINIONS, just like the dude in this
article.

Dave (who is spending as much as he can on fly fishing stuff/trips, and
driving schools. My kids won't get a helluva lot because the
inheritance tax is obscene.)

On 8/30/2010 7:15 PM, Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:
On Aug 30, 5:04 pm, wrote:
"And where, in all of this, are the responsible Republicans, leaders who
will stand up and say that some partisans are going too far? Nowhere to
be found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/op...l?_r=1&src=me&...

Uh, how 'bout us moderates? Are we allowed in the discourse?
We have a resurgence of the power of the labor unions, such as SEIU,
with government support. I had never heard of either ACORN or SEIU
till 3 years ago and now they have incredible power with the requisite
abuse. The cost of running a city is skyrocketing because unions won't
budge. The fire and police department here in Omaha are run by unions
that are spiking their pay and refuse to allow a change. They also
have enough politicians in their pockets that their affecting the
agenda.
I'm not seeing a lot of leadership and I'm also seeing the same deal
of "if you're against the president, then you're unAmerican." Bull.
The rise in government workers is another thing that is scaring me.
More and more folks in the government and we all know that the most
costly thing in any business is the manpower. Who's going to pay for
this? Yes, granted, the pay is not as good as the private sector for
equivalent work so quite often, you're not gonna get that top
performer. This causes more problems. "Grade inflation" is rampant.
I've seen folks getting the title and duty of "engineer" with a 2 year
degree (check out the help wanted adds and you'll find tons of this).
And when a system doesn't work as planned, they're stymied. Then they
have to backtrack or call in folks who can fix it, doubling or
trebling the cost.
A few years ago, I was termed a "liberal." Now I'm considered right
wing. Why? I'm retired military so I must be some right wing nut.
Those that are being called liberals are so far from the middle
(Pelosi and crew), they're in a whole nother world. Oh, by the way,
they have the power. I'm so sick and tired of "big corporations and
banks are bad." Bull. They happen to make a lot of the useless crap
we buy. They employ tons of people. Now those folks are out of a
job. Screw that. I'm just sick and tired of the animosity caused by
this divergence from the middle. Folks are toooooooo far to the right
and left and the rest of us are stuck with scary policies. There is
no balance. It would be the same with the Limbaugh crowd. Just
another screaming fringe telling us the other side is evil whilst
raping the rest of us.

Frank "the Mad Middle" Reid
and oh by the way, that friggen editorial was nothing but a bunch of
hand wringing and whining. Where are the Dem's that want to stand up
and say "enough's enough?"

you're a moderate?? you've never been moderate in anything i've seen
you do. g

just so i'll know your frame of reference, wtf is a liberal, or lefty,
or whatever the pejorative is for a democrat, a moderate, a
conservative, right wing, etc.? i think rush and beck are nuts...does
that mean i'm a lefty, liberal, or moderate? i also think pelosi and
reid are more "moderate" than other congressional democrats.

so...um...your response to krugman's "whining", is that an opinion that
Obama is too "left", or too "muslim", or too "black"? big, big,
grin...just to make sure you know jest is afoot

frankly (heh, that's ancipital), i think the guy is too "middle"... but
i reckon he thinks like you. g

so frank...how about we cut back on the military? that's the
best/quickest way to get the budget/economy in better shape, no?

military folks, like black folks, white folks, brown folks, tan folks,
atheist folks, christian folks, big business/bank folks, small business
folks, muslim folks, and other sorts of folks (name your own category)
have opinions worthy of consideration (...except the ditto-head lemmings
or non-thinkers of course, which cuts out a huge swath, imo). the
conversation is so polarized and partisan...more than i've noticed in my
life...we are simply stalled and ****ed. ...and that's what some want
just to win an election. to hell with them, and those who support them.
what would you have obama do?

jeff (big corporations and big banks are bad, bad, bad...too many rats
in the cage is always a problem...in every scenario. yeah...government
too. just finished some townes van zandt music, now listening to taj
mahal... good stuff)

In what was one of the most depressing posts I've read here in all my years:
"Frank Reid © 2010" wrote in message
...
On Aug 30, 5:04 pm, jeff wrote:
We have a resurgence of the power of the labor unions, such as SEIU,
with government support. I had never heard of either ACORN or SEIU
till 3 years ago and now they have incredible power with the requisite
abuse.

while I'd agree that sometimes labor unions overplay their representation, I
have trouble seeing the current situation as any sort of resurgence. The
fact that
YOU haven't heard of Service Employees International, or ACORN(not a
union whatsoever) doesn't mean that they haven't been out there for years,
doing a solid job of representing workers who were for years vastly
underpaid,
and trying to provide liveable housing for the poor. The fact that you
suddenly
DID hear of them in the past 3 years is directly attributed to ideological
smear campaigns targetting both.

The rise in government workers is another thing that is scaring me.
More and more folks in the government and we all know that the most
costly thing in any business is the manpower. Who's going to pay for
this?

This has to be the most bizarre part of your entire post, Frank. What,
exactly
do you think is the source of pay for your employer? You might describe it
as 'private sector', but you represent quite possibly the most exhorbitant,
runaway expense our government faces: 'Private contractors' for the defense
and National security sector. Eisenhower warned the nation in the 50s about
a military/industrial complex and the dangers thereof, yet we, as a nation,
chose to ignore him. Now we have 1/2 of the defense budget which isn't
even subject to Congressional oversight, nor any public review of the
numbers.
This equates to 1/4 of the entire Federal budget. I read a treatise a few
months
back about the rise of secrecy, security and related expenditures since the
Manhatten Project, with the general premise that the exponential rise in the
complexity and cost of what amounts to a shadow government will eventually
bankrupt the US. You might do well to focus there, my friend, if the rise in
the
costs of government frightens you. Or, as Walt Kelly once put it, "we have
met
the enemy and he is us".


A few years ago, I was termed a "liberal." Now I'm considered right
wing. Why? I'm retired military so I must be some right wing nut.

in all the years I've known you, such thoughts never crossed my mind....
until this morning.

I'm so sick and tired of "big corporations and
banks are bad." Bull. They happen to make a lot of the useless crap
we buy. They employ tons of people.

increasingly, people in far off lands, but you do have a point, I think....

Bottom line is this: we've gotten so far off the tracks over the past 3
decades that
NO ONE is going to fix it fast, if at all. The point you make at the end
about
squabbling extremes is well taken. It is just that squabbling that allows
the control
to rest with the exact same folks that have sort of controlled things for,
say, the
past couple of centuries, to keep raking it in at the expense of most of the
rest of
the nation. Meanwhile the nation keeps polarizing, but I see that in two
different fashions.
Sure, the political polarization is obvious, but look at the economic trends
of the
past 30 or more years. A small percentage of folks is pulling further and
further away
from the rest. Eventually, you end up with an oligarchy, or worse. With
pressure from
some of those toward the top end for less government and less taxation, say
goodbye
to infrastructure, say goodbye to social safety nets and minimal medical
assistance to
all. It'll be just like the good old days, except with even less domestic
employment,
as we can build the sweatshops elsewhere and those collecting the dividends
will be
just as well off as ever.


Tom

On Aug 30, 5:15*pm, Frank Reid © 2010

I'm so sick and tired of "big corporations and
banks are bad." *Bull. *They happen to make a lot of the useless crap
we buy. *They employ tons of people.

They've also worked very hard over the last few decades to stack the
deck against "the people". They could care less about people. Why are
big corps sitting on mountains of cash and refusing to hire? Why are
big banks making record profits (and doling out hefty bonuses) while
refusing to make loans? Why have the last few decades seen the
greatest transfer of wealth from the bottom 95% to the upper 5%? BTW
corporations now enjoy the Bill of Rights just like you do -- how's
that for power?

Yeah, I'm part of the middle too. None of the above couldn't have
happened without BOTH the major parties in collusion to make it
happen. Fire 'em all as far as I'm concerned.

A few good reads from a site I frequent:

http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/20...nvisible-fist/

http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/20...he-plutocracy/

http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/20...he-doom-cycle/

Lest you think that FPR is a far-left site, actually most of the
authors would generally be classified as quite conservative. But most
assuredly NOT Republican.

Enjoy,

Jon.

On 2010-08-30 18:04:53 -0400, jeff said:

"And where, in all of this, are the responsible Republicans, leaders
who will stand up and say that some partisans are going too far?
Nowhere to be found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/op...e&ref=homepage

Big

word at the top of the page: "OPINION"

They're just like assholes; we all have one.

Dave (surprised at my brother Jeff)
d;o)