virtual guide gig

The water is fast, over knee deep at the most shallow spots ( I have NEVER
seen a fish in the "shallow" spots, don't know why, but would guess the
bottom structure doesn't provide enough relief from the water's force ).
The water force is such that five (5) AB non toxic shot will NOT get a fly
to the bottom in thigh/waist deep water ( the deepest I can even stand up
in safely at this water velocity )

Just below those shallows the bottom falls off bedrock shelves. Below
these steep dropoffs the water is too deep and fast to wade in most places,
and often contains downed trees and such. Most of the water can be reached
by a longish cast to 5+ft deep fast water, only a very small percentage can
be waded to and fished with a short line, ala high sticking.

The last two times there, each a brief one, I have managed a few fish on
weighted woolybuggers cast to the deep areas and allowed to swing. But,
there must be a better way ....

suggestions?

oh .... your fee and tip will be virtual, too G

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
The water is fast, over knee deep at the most shallow spots ( I have NEVER
seen a fish in the "shallow" spots, don't know why, but would guess the
bottom structure doesn't provide enough relief from the water's force ).
The water force is such that five (5) AB non toxic shot will NOT get a fly
to the bottom in thigh/waist deep water ( the deepest I can even stand up
in safely at this water velocity )

Just below those shallows the bottom falls off bedrock shelves. Below
these steep dropoffs the water is too deep and fast to wade in most
places,
and often contains downed trees and such. Most of the water can be
reached
by a longish cast to 5+ft deep fast water, only a very small percentage
can
be waded to and fished with a short line, ala high sticking.

The last two times there, each a brief one, I have managed a few fish on
weighted woolybuggers cast to the deep areas and allowed to swing. But,
there must be a better way ....

suggestions?

As I understand there is a deep fast riffle followed by a fall into a deep
pool? Is it a fall or just a steeper grade? What happens if you let your fly
"go with the flow"? I'd spend a lot of time - and lose a lot of flies -
trying to get the fish that I know are under the downed trees and such.
Bob

Larry wonders:
stream description snipped
But,
there must be a better way ....

suggestions?

1. fast sinking line, with large(#2-4) streamers. You will lose a ton of them,
so bring plenty. Keep the leader short,
and fairly stout.

2. Unorthodox, but a Great Lakes style
"slinky" rig with a nymph might work,
and stay clear of the deadfalls. Strike detection should be a bitch, but you
should luck into a few.

My virtual collection agents will be by to collect my feeg
Tom

Look in:

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk/index.htm

Then go to this thread:

Flytalk III
The Salmon and Steelhead Legacy
Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon
INDY fishing with the Loop Blue and SCUA

The SCUA cast is probably the best way to get anything down in heavy
flows. If you use a DT line or a long bellied WF, you can cast one of
these pretty far out and up stream.

Basically, the SCUA is an upstream lift where not enough energy is put
into the cast to have the entire line straighten out. Since the fly
is the first thing heading downstream, it goes down fast.

The SCUA stands for SCrewed Up Anchor as it's pretty common on the
initial lift of a double spey that you blow the anchor placement and
see the fly go past you, heading upstream (it's supposed to land
downstream of the caster, but with a big belly upstream). Since I
blow the anchor placement with some regularity, I got pretty
proficient at this. It's the most effective nymph cast I've ever
tried and it eliminates any need for mending.



Peter

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"Larry L" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
suggestions?

oh .... your fee and tip will be virtual, too G



Use tungsten beads on the woolly buggers, and wrap the shanks with lead, (
or the non toxic equivalent of your choice). Use leaders with a long fine
tippet, and use a tuck cast.

TL
MC

with all that weight, it'd be a "f***" cast wouldn't it? g

jeff (proficient at the "f" cast)

Mike Connor wrote:

"Larry L" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP

suggestions?

oh .... your fee and tip will be virtual, too G



Use tungsten beads on the woolly buggers, and wrap the shanks with lead, (
or the non toxic equivalent of your choice). Use leaders with a long fine
tippet, and use a tuck cast.

TL
MC

"Jeff Miller" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:_Im_b.13015$iB.1236@lakeread06...
with all that weight, it'd be a "f***" cast wouldn't it? g

jeff (proficient at the "f" cast)


It will be if you don´t get it right, and the "fly" comes back and hits you
in the face!

For an explanation, see here;
http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tflyfirst.shtml

TL
MC

Jeff Miller wrote:
with all that weight, it'd be a "f***" cast wouldn't it? g

jeff (proficient at the "f" cast)

Tuck casts I find easier with weight on the end.

"Peter Charles" wrote


The SCUA cast is probably the best way to get anything down in heavy
flows. If you use a DT line or a long bellied WF, you can cast one of
these pretty far out and up stream.


I can easily see how a belly of line upstream is a good thing for getting
the fly deep, but I'm not familiar with Spey casting and not sure exactly
how the cast is done ..... I'll play around, as I'm greatly encouraged by
the fact that screwing up a good cast is the start .... I MUST be well on
the way to mastering this one


How do you get the fly to land well above you and still get the belly above
that? I'd normally try to pitch the fly with a tuck and then stack mend
till I was at fishing depth, but even that won't get down enough in the
water in question.

The fish ( I think ) sit JUST downstream of the underwater big drop offs.
The water immediately down stream of the fish is too deep to wade, so you
have to make a longish upstream cast to reach them ( or devise a means to
get down to them from above ... but, falling and riding over the lip into
deep water and sweepers isn't fun been there done that, recently ... so I'd
like to approach from below ) Where the fish sit, the water at their
level is probably slowly swirling around like a vertical eddy, but its fast
enough to have standing waves at the surface, so the line drags even a heavy
weight away from the zone as soon as slack is used up .

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:01:48 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote


The SCUA cast is probably the best way to get anything down in heavy
flows. If you use a DT line or a long bellied WF, you can cast one of
these pretty far out and up stream.


I can easily see how a belly of line upstream is a good thing for getting
the fly deep, but I'm not familiar with Spey casting and not sure exactly
how the cast is done ..... I'll play around, as I'm greatly encouraged by
the fact that screwing up a good cast is the start .... I MUST be well on
the way to mastering this one


How do think I "invented" this one.


How do you get the fly to land well above you and still get the belly above
that? I'd normally try to pitch the fly with a tuck and then stack mend
till I was at fishing depth, but even that won't get down enough in the
water in question.

The essence of spey casting involves being able to cast a controlled
loop (a D-Loop) like this, so it's something that's easy for a
speycaster to do. Imagine your line is on the dangle after it hs
completed it's drift and swung around to be straight down from you.
Normally you'd either lob it straight upstream or make a couple of
false casts. In this case, while keeping the rod low, almost parallel
to the water, slowly and smoothy sweep the rod upstream of you. If
you apply too much power, the line ends up straight upstream. If you
start taking the power off, the belly will go upstream but it'll leave
the fly dangling downstream. By fine tuning the lift, you can place
the fly pretty well anywhere you want. The longer the rod, the easier
this is to do.

After the belly is positioned, quickly lift the line into the classic
high-sticking postion as the fly starts fishing so quickly, you could
have a strike almost right away.


The fish ( I think ) sit JUST downstream of the underwater big drop offs.
The water immediately down stream of the fish is too deep to wade, so you
have to make a longish upstream cast to reach them ( or devise a means to
get down to them from above ... but, falling and riding over the lip into
deep water and sweepers isn't fun been there done that, recently ... so I'd
like to approach from below ) Where the fish sit, the water at their
level is probably slowly swirling around like a vertical eddy, but its fast
enough to have standing waves at the surface, so the line drags even a heavy
weight away from the zone as soon as slack is used up .


Well, we know the old 1 1/2 to 2 times leader length, with the SCUA, I
had to keep adjusting the bobber downward as I kept hanging up. This
absolutely perfect for downstream drop-offs because the fly and tippet
will already be deep as it approaches the drop-off and completely drag
free. It's almost as if the belly of line pushes the fly down.



Peter

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