1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions

I posted some questions here a few years back before my first trip to
the Yoop and got some helpful advice (a grateful tip of the cap to Mr.
Wolfgang) on streams around the Kenton area. Planning a return trip in
a couple weeks and I'm hoping I can score some insights on a different
topic this time: Black flies. Our last trip was in late summer/early
fall, so these pests weren't really an issue. But with the return trip
scheduled for the first week of July, I'm a little worried this time
around.

First, is it completely nuts to fish up there this time of year?
There's some indication in archived posts on the topic that black fly
season may be over by early July. Can anyone attest to how the season
is shaping up so far this year?

Second, is one repellent better than another for black flies/deer
flies? I'm sure I could get multiple answers here, but any advice based
on experience (or otherwise, I suppose) is appreciated.

Finally, are black flies more of a stream nuisance, or should we expect
to battle them around warmwater lakes as well?

While I'm at it, I'll push my luck with a bonus question as well: Any
Kenton-area streams fish better than others this time of year?

Thanks a bunch for any help.

Justin

wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190
@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I posted some questions here a few years back before my first trip to
the Yoop and got some helpful advice (a grateful tip of the cap to Mr.
Wolfgang) on streams around the Kenton area. Planning a return trip in
a couple weeks and I'm hoping I can score some insights on a different
topic this time: Black flies. Our last trip was in late summer/early
fall, so these pests weren't really an issue. But with the return trip
scheduled for the first week of July, I'm a little worried this time
around.

First, is it completely nuts to fish up there this time of year?
There's some indication in archived posts on the topic that black fly
season may be over by early July. Can anyone attest to how the season
is shaping up so far this year?

Second, is one repellent better than another for black flies/deer
flies? I'm sure I could get multiple answers here, but any advice based
on experience (or otherwise, I suppose) is appreciated.

Finally, are black flies more of a stream nuisance, or should we expect
to battle them around warmwater lakes as well?

While I'm at it, I'll push my luck with a bonus question as well: Any
Kenton-area streams fish better than others this time of year?

Thanks a bunch for any help.

Justin



For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even with
the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel with a
headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into trouble, I'd pick
up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a lightweight cotton
glove or something.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190
@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even with
the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel with a
headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into trouble, I'd pick
up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a lightweight cotton
glove or something.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott,
Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes?
Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't given in
the MSDS data?
Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July.
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190
@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even
with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel
with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into
trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a
lightweight cotton glove or something.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott,
Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes?
Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't
given in the MSDS data?
Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July.
-tom



Nothing really beyond the ken, but black flies seem to be able to simply
ignore repellents when they want to, and then life can get real miserable
real fast. See http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2167.html and look
at the prevention section.

I know you like traveling ultra light, but if the area you're heading
into has a reputation of black fly activity in early July, you might want
to pick up a head net. If the flys are really bad, buy more than one,
and gouge your travel companions on the price! You might also do up your
travel clothes with Permethrin-- that's most conveniently done in
advance. I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin
and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment
lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190
@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even
with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel
with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into
trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring
a lightweight cotton glove or something.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott,
Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes?
Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't
given in the MSDS data?
Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July.
-tom




Perhaps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6064633275
&category=11741 will do for a mosquito glove


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...


"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190
@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even
with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel
with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into
trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring
a lightweight cotton glove or something.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott,
Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes?
Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't
given in the MSDS data?
Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July.
-tom




Perhaps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6064633275
&category=11741 will do for a mosquito glove


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Great sense of humor Scott!!!
Yes I do have a bug headnet, and lightweight bug off gloves...even thought
of bringing along one of these:
http://frogs.org.au/x/bonking/mosquito_catch.gif
-tom

On 19 Jun 2006 20:42:01 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote:

I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin
and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment
lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy.

I treat my hats, and that seems to help some as well.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

Charlie Choc wrote:
On 19 Jun 2006 20:42:01 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote:


I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin
and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment
lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy.


I treat my hats, and that seems to help some as well.

Has anyone had experience with the Orvis (or any brand) "Bug-off
jackets? I always carry a headnet in my tackle bag but am reluctant to
spend the bucks on the jacket.

Frank Sr.
....so far, bug free this year

Scott Seidman wrote:
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190
@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even
with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel
with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into
trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a
lightweight cotton glove or something.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott,
Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes?
Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't
given in the MSDS data?
Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July.
-tom



Nothing really beyond the ken, but black flies seem to be able to simply
ignore repellents when they want to, and then life can get real miserable
real fast. See http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2167.html and look
at the prevention section.

I know you like traveling ultra light, but if the area you're heading
into has a reputation of black fly activity in early July, you might want
to pick up a head net. If the flys are really bad, buy more than one,
and gouge your travel companions on the price! You might also do up your
travel clothes with Permethrin-- that's most conveniently done in
advance. I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin
and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment
lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Of course you are aware that Permethrin is a rather potent nerotoxin
right? Google it and be afraid, be very afraid. :-)

vis. *...
The insecticide permethrin (in the synthetic pyrethroid family) is
widely used on cotton, wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other crops. In
addition, over 100 million applications are made annually in and around
U.S. homes.

Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Symptoms
include tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased
aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests
suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to
adults. ...*

david N.

David wrote:

Of course you are aware that Permethrin is a rather potent nerotoxin
right? Google it and be afraid, be very afraid. :-)

vis. *...
The insecticide permethrin (in the synthetic pyrethroid family) is
widely used on cotton, wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other crops. In
addition, over 100 million applications are made annually in and around
U.S. homes.

Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Symptoms
include tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased
aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests
suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to
adults. ...*

david N.


Actually, permethrin is generally considered a relatively low toxicity
insecticide. It has pretty low toxicity both through oral and dermal
routes. You would have to have an awful lot applied to you before you
showed any symptoms. Mammals can metabolize it pretty rapidly. It is
registered and safe to use on a variety of mammals. It can have
detrimental effects in aquatic systems, however. See the fact sheet at

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/permethr.htm

Tim Lysyk