Loop connection vs. knot

Here's a different point of view.

I nail knot some red amnesia to the end of my fly line and tie a surgeon's
loop in it --if it doesn't already come with a loop like, for example, the
Rio Grandes do. Then I use a loop to loop connection for the leader.
Again, RIO's come with a loop already in them. It doesn't seem to harm my
casting at all.

My son, on home leave after combat and peacekeeping in Iraq, asked me to
take him FFing for the first time. We're past the season for dries and so
are chucking nymphs with indicator and weight. Not surprisingly, as a total
beginner, he's getting the occasional snarl.

We could spend time fixing the technique flaws that caused the snarls. I
did a bit of this, but I don't think he's going to get enough enjoyment from
that to hook him on the sport. We could sit there on the stream bank and
work out the snarls or retie leaders. But I figure his time on the water
actually fishing is precious and new leaders are cheap.

Today we cut off 3 of his snarled leaders and got him back to fishing fast.
He caught 4 trout and grinned all the way home.

I can get a 3-pack of leaders for about what it costs me to rent a DVD. The
loop to loop makes it really fast to change leaders. Beginner's casts
aren't influenced as much by the connector as by other issues. If you've
only been at this for a year, "transfer of energy" is more of a concept like
global warming than an issue like standing on a burning bridge.

Getting through a total season with one leader is not my goal. I wanna
catch (and release) fish. I wanna have days filled with fishing, not
unsnarling knots or reconstructing leaders. Unsnarling knots and
reconstructing leaders is too much like what I do for a living as a
consultant, not what I want to do for fun.



"Ernie" wrote in message
y.com...
Tim,
Sierra Fisher and Wolfgang are giving you good information. Leader
Links
allow you to change leaders quickly and they last a long time. They don't
catch moss, cause drag or make a splash and they transfer power well.
They
are strong and you will break your tippet long before you break them.
They
are very economical.
Leader Link - A small nylon device that connects your line to the leader
with a simple overhand knot. Can be purchased from Eagle Claw Country
Store
Phone 1-800-628-0108. Get LL1 for tapered lines and LL2 for level lines.
Ernie

"haresear" wrote in message
My Question: Are loop connectors at the end of your fly line an
advantage? They sure make it easy to change leaders, but do they
provide sufficient transfer of energy from line to leader? Is it
"better" to use a nail knot? Or does it matter?
Tim

In article . net,
"Oldfrat" wrote:

I can get a 3-pack of leaders for about what it costs me to rent a DVD. The
loop to loop makes it really fast to change leaders. Beginner's casts
aren't influenced as much by the connector as by other issues. If you've
only been at this for a year, "transfer of energy" is more of a concept like
global warming than an issue like standing on a burning bridge.

A dvd rents for about $2. Where do you buy 3 leaders for $2 to $4?
That is what you get a leader for at a fly shop, about $3.50, about $2
if you get FAIRPLAY. And that is at Wallmart, which has nets for $6
that fly shops sell for $30

Oldfrat wrote:

I nail knot some red amnesia to the end of my fly line and tie a
surgeon's loop in it

Have only found a few references to red amnesia. What exactly is it and
what is it for? Sounds painful to me

If you've only been at this for a year, "transfer of
energy" is more of a concept like global warming than an issue like
standing on a burning bridge.

Excellent point. I am only too aware of how many other things I need to
deal with first. I personally have a nail knot tool, and I know how to
use it. I derive a certain amount of satisfaction when the knot comes
out right; it's all part of the overall enjoyment of the sport. (Now
somebody's gonna scream, "you use a *tool* to tie your knots?" ;)

Getting through a total season with one leader is not my goal. I
wanna catch (and release) fish. I wanna have days filled with
fishing, not unsnarling knots or reconstructing leaders. Unsnarling
knots and reconstructing leaders is too much like what I do for a
living as a consultant, not what I want to do for fun.

I'm no purist, but I try to avoid scorn and ridicule when possible (just
don't look at my casting). I'm at the stage you describe where I'm
changing leaders for all the wrong reasons and at the worst times. The
loop to loop starts to look inviting after the third one-- first nail
knot on the bank: "nice one, Tim"; second knot in midstream: "hey, I can
do this"; third knot with numb fingers: "where's that freakin' loop
thingy!"

BTW, thanks to all for your input. And thanks for being gentle with the
newbe.

Keep the thoughts coming,

Tim Hare

"haresear" wrote...
(Now somebody's gonna scream, "you use a *tool* to tie your knots?" ;)

Yup, but not TOO loud. Try the "nail-less nail knot" next time. SUPER easy,
strong, and no tools.

http://www.virtualflyshop.com/skills/jb4knots/

--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:
... Try the "nail-less nail knot" next time. SUPER easy,
strong, and no tools.

http://www.virtualflyshop.com/skills/jb4knots/

I use a short piece of cocktail straw to tie my nail knots. They're
free and if you ever lose one you can just go into a bar and buy a
drink. I can't tell you how many of those things I lose. ;-)

Anyway, this "nail-less" thing intrigued me. Could it be possible
that there's been a better way all this time and I didn't know
about it ? Nope. I know a nail knot, and that sir, is no nail knot.
Pretty fair facsimile, but it ain't the real thing and I wouldn't
trust it.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
Tim J. wrote:
... Try the "nail-less nail knot" next time. SUPER easy,
strong, and no tools.

http://www.virtualflyshop.com/skills/jb4knots/

I use a short piece of cocktail straw to tie my nail knots. They're
free and if you ever lose one you can just go into a bar and buy a
drink. I can't tell you how many of those things I lose. ;-)

Anyway, this "nail-less" thing intrigued me. Could it be possible
that there's been a better way all this time and I didn't know
about it ?

Yes, that is a possibility. There's always a chance you COULD learn something
new. Try it sometime.

Nope. I know a nail knot, and that sir, is no nail knot.

Elitist snob.

Pretty fair facsimile, but it ain't the real thing and I wouldn't
trust it.

Me neither - at first. I've used it now the last two years running and it works
great.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
Tim J. wrote:

... Try the "nail-less nail knot" ...
...
Pretty fair facsimile, but it ain't the real thing and I wouldn't
trust it.

Me neither - at first. I've used it now the last two years running and it works
great.

Different strokes ...

I tied up a couple dozen of these last night, .021, .019, .017, 4 turn,
5 turn, 6 turn, and I wouldn't trust any of them. That knot just doesn't
seem to grab the fly line and seat as well a real nail knot.

--
Ken Fortenberry

I have used it for a number of years, and never had a failure with it.

Tim Lysyk
timlysyk at telus dot net

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
.com...
Tim J. wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
Tim J. wrote:

... Try the "nail-less nail knot" ...
...
Pretty fair facsimile, but it ain't the real thing and I wouldn't
trust it.

Me neither - at first. I've used it now the last two years running and
it works
great.

Different strokes ...

I tied up a couple dozen of these last night, .021, .019, .017, 4 turn,
5 turn, 6 turn, and I wouldn't trust any of them. That knot just doesn't
seem to grab the fly line and seat as well a real nail knot.

--
Ken Fortenberry