IMO, the final words on hot or boiling water and mono...

mdk77 wrote:
) Nothing is simple on ROFF

Au contraire mon frere de la Peche truites, some people on ROFF are
pretty simple!

TL
MC

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:52:10 -0800 (PST), mdk77
wrote:

On Nov 14, 10:26 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:48:42 +0100, MC wrote:
wrote:

HTH,
R

Juts as well you don´t have the final words on anything.

http://www.prochemical.com/direction...rsionNylon.htm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...i=B6TFY-4KFMMC...

How do you think they dye nylon Dickie boy?

Doubtful that you talked to anybody at RIO, I know a couple of people
there, and at several other firms as well. They would not waste their
time on a dumbass like you.

MC

Call #2 to RIO:

This time, I called the main phone number, as anyone is certainly free
to do (208-524-7760) and asked for tech services. I didn't ask for
anyone in particular - I got whoever I got by the same process anyone
who calls gets someone. I generally explained the situation and asked
about boiling leaders. The _exact_ quote: "Aaah...they should
straighten out by hand easily enough..." So I persist in attempting to
get a direct answer about boiling them. "Well, like I said, they should
straighten out by hand..." A crafty devil, this guy, so I persist.
According to the tech support person at RIO: "No, you shouldn't boil
them." "How about hot water?," I ask. "It's not recommended," but if
you insist, "make sure the water isn't above about 120 degrees" (since
he is in Idaho, I think the assumption that he meant Fahrenheit is a
safe one) and "definitely not on the tippet terminal end," but again,
"it's not recommended."

So I'm curious: what did the people you know at RIO say when you called
and asked them if they were OK with such a widely-read and influential
flyfishing expert as yourself recommending hither and yon that folks
boil their leaders and that it would do them no harm to boil them for
hours?

Dickie boy

One of us should call back and ask about the technique that Tom's
friend uses (the "leader through the underwear thing"). Ask them if
that is better than boiling :-)

Funny...funny...but actually, it would be...well, depending on how
sweaty ya are...again, it's not the heat, at least as far as "hot water"
is concerned, it's the moisture and the increase in absorption...

I don't know how long you've been around, but I've suggested this a few
times over the years - if you have a room that you can use for this, put
a small nail or picture hanger hook in each corner and use rubber bands
and small stainless or plated hooks to "stretch" (not with lots of
tension, only enough to keep 'em taut) leaders and lines uncoiled.
Also, a hook or two in the back of a large piece of furniture will allow
storage of lines in large coils without them getting in the way. At the
very least, get a few line reels (not fishing reels - these are large
plastic "spools") and use them. If you must store "coiled," the larger
the coil, the less problems you'll have.

- Dave K.
(the very foolish guy who started the "coiled leader thing" in his
newbie post) Nothing is simple on ROFF

Oh, I don't know...it's all pretty simple...unless you try and make it
difficult for yourself...buy hey, YMMV...

TC,
R

"mdk77" wrote in message
...
On Nov 15, 1:57 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"mdk77" wrote in message

...

...Nothing is simple on ROFF

Heh, heh, heh.

Wolfgang
hell, nobody even got around to suggesting that the leaders should be
boiled
while IN the underwear.......yet.

Or with the boiled turkey giblets either.....the poor guy answering
the phone at Rio probably thinks we're a dangerous and crazed fly-
fishing cult already. The giblets & underwear thing would REALLY
frighten him.

- Dave K.


They wear underwear at Rio?
-tom

On Nov 15, 3:07 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"mdk77" wrote in message

...



On Nov 15, 1:57 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"mdk77" wrote in message

...

...Nothing is simple on ROFF

Heh, heh, heh.

Wolfgang
hell, nobody even got around to suggesting that the leaders should be
boiled
while IN the underwear.......yet.

Or with the boiled turkey giblets either.....the poor guy answering
the phone at Rio probably thinks we're a dangerous and crazed fly-
fishing cult already. The giblets & underwear thing would REALLY
frighten him.

- Dave K.

They wear underwear at Rio?
-tom

Well if they don't, how the heck do they straighten their leaders?

wrote:

Oh, I don't know...it's all pretty simple...unless you try and make it
difficult for yourself...buy hey, YMMV...

TC,
R

Your final words going to carry on for much longer?

Dickie boy, it does not really matter to me what you or anybody else
on ROFF thinks of my advice, or that a number of you feel compelled to
ridicule it, deny that it works, or invent a load of bull**** to
"prove" that it doesn´t.

The advice on the leaders was directed at Mr.Kistner, who asked the
question in the first place. It worked, and he is happy with it. He
will doubtless now do the same thing again if he ever gets some badly
coiled leaders, as doubtless will some other people, even if they don
´t admit to it on here.

My primary objective in this case, of simply helping another angler,
was achieved as soon as he successfully carried out my advice.

It is extremely unlikely that either he or anybody else who tries it,
or has tried it, will take much notice of your or anybody else´s
witterings on the matter, as they then know that it works.

MC

wrote in message
...

...it's all pretty simple....

Yeah, EVERYBODY knows about nylon's pesky absorption problem.

Idiot.

Wolfgang

wrote:


I don't know how long you've been around, but I've suggested this a few
times over the years - if you have a room that you can use for this, put
a small nail or picture hanger hook in each corner and use rubber bands
and small stainless or plated hooks to "stretch" (not with lots of
tension, only enough to keep 'em taut) leaders and lines uncoiled.
Also, a hook or two in the back of a large piece of furniture will allow
storage of lines in large coils without them getting in the way. At the
very least, get a few line reels (not fishing reels - these are large
plastic "spools") and use them. If you must store "coiled," the larger
the coil, the less problems you'll have.

- Dave K.
(the very foolish guy who started the "coiled leader thing" in his
newbie post) Nothing is simple on ROFF

Oh, I don't know...it's all pretty simple...unless you try and make it
difficult for yourself...buy hey, YMMV...

TC,
R

You know what Mr.LaCourse is going to say about this don´t you Dickie
boy? How are you going to carry that room to the stream?

Nobody is going to nail leaders to the wall Dickie boy. it is much
simpler to drop them in hot water, and then hold them straight while
they cool.

While it is true that nylon absorbs sone water, and this does affect
its wet breaking strain negatively, this is also temperature
dependent, and when the leader returns to normal temperatures, or is
"dried", it returns to normal.

Nylon fishing line is made (surprise surprise!) for use in water, it
always absorbs some water in use, and it always loses some strength as
a result.

Unless you use nylon leaders for fishing in boiling water, there is no
problem Dickie boy, and even the it would merely result in a slightly
lesser breaking strain of the nylon concerned.

MC

Oh, and while I did not actually advocate boiling leaders Dickie boy,
I know at least one person who does it regularly with very fine nylon
for a specific purpose. He only fishes dry flies, and boiling his
tippet material makes it extremely limp and elastic, ( I don´t know
exactly how long he boils them, I would have to ask him), this
apparently allows a much better drag free presentation, and also
prevents breaks.

Nailing leaders to the wall, wont do any of that Dickie boy, and the
holes in the wall are unsightly to boot.

MC

Oh and one last but extremely germane point Dickie boy. If you nail
your leaders to the wall, you are exposing them to light, which will
damage them, and also greater oxidation, which will be exacerbated by
any temperature changes. They will become brittle quite quickly, and
be extremely risky to use.

If you require confirmation of these observations, I am sure RIO wont
mind you giving them another call?

Just because a nail in the wall works for your Picasso´s Dickie boy,
does not mean it will work for anything else.

MC

I just found this as well, which Myron posted. There are so many
thread on this stuuf now that it is hard to follow;

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=519707

for anybody too lazy to read it ( and for Oakies, who apparently don´t
know what links are for)

QUOTE


Our local guide and assistant coach was a man named Antonio. He
introduced us to the techniques and flies that they use in northern
Portugal. Tony was very well versed in some techniques and tips that
we here in the USA have probably not seen to much of. I thought I'd
share some of them with you and maybe you can use a few of them on
your home waters.

1. Boiling your leaders - Much of the fishing we did was at a very
short distance with extremely light tippets. Tony boiled his leaders
for 5 minutes. The bioling turned them into basically one solid length
of shock gum with very little loss of breaking strength. We dry fly
fished with 7 foot of tippet and a 9 foot leader. With a quick hook
set the stretch and suppleness of a boiled leader kept us from
breaking off fish.

2. Staying out of the water - I went with most of the anglers on at
least one beat. I'd generally be there if they had an especially tough
beat. The Upper Mouro had the toughest fishing conditions with the
spookiest fish. In the first session I went along with Adam Picketts.
Adam fishes in PA for wild brown trout and is a terrific angler. He
ahd drawn a tough beat on a tough river. I stayed low and spotted fish
from a high spot well upstream from Adam. I watched as Adam worked his
way up river. Adam stayed out of the water almost totally. On one
occasion Adam set one foot in the water 40 yards down river from a
riffle. The almost imperceptable noise made by his foot sent all the
fish in the above pool into hiding. I was completely amazed at how
well these fish could detect noise on the stream. It is much more than
I had ever imagined.

3. Bow Casting - Several of the rivers had severe over growth. The
White River where I guide is wide open and requires long accurate
casts. If you made a back cast on these rivers you'd be picking your
flies out of the trees. I worked with Weston on his bow casts prior to
the competition. He was standing in the hall of the hotel and putting
a fly under the chair in his room with a bow cast in the days prior.
Apparently it was a big factor and it showed in Westons scores.

4. Light tippets - I pretty well knew that light tippets were a
factor. However the difference in 7X vs 6X are much more than you'd
ever imagine. The same goes for 7X vs 8X. Also flouro vs mono. It
often took a 7 foot tippet of 8X to make the difference in a take vs a
blank. On spooky fish stealth is every thing.

5. Water temp - We had practice sessions prior to the competition.
There were a couple of days were the outside temps got into the low
90's and the water temps hit the upper 60's. If you weren't fishing
white water you blanked.

6. Long rods - Here in the USA 9 foot is the rule. It is a major
advantage to use a 10-11 foot rod in such short fishing conditions.
Both for the ability to cast, manipulate the fly as well as landing
fish. The thought of using a 7 foot rod in tight quarters vs an 11
foot would put you at a major disadvantage. Exactly the opposite of
what you'd think.

7. Fish are curious - Fish don't have hands and will often test or
investigate a fly by tasting it. We caught several fish on totally
stupid flies that simply peaked the fishes curiousity. They would swim
from several feet to see what had just hit the water. Fish that were
easily spooked would often swim over to a fly and test it. Amazing....

8. Don't bite your tippets - Last year we all got some sort of water
born bacteria that had the team running for the woods every 30
minutes. One of the English coaches Simon Kidd got it this year.
Biting your tippet dosen't really do too much to your teeth but it is
major dangerous from a water born parasite perspective.

9. Keep your mind open and your mouth shut - I've been a competitive
angler for 10 years now. By far the most valuable lesson I've learned
is that it pays to listen to others. Rather than showing people how
much you know it's better to listen and pay attention. These
competitions have been one of the most valuable forums for information
involving fly fishing. I've never been to one that I didn't learn
things that I'd of never discovered on my own. I'm sure the boys would
agree that we all learned a lot and are better by the experience.

John

UNQUOTE

MC