Cutting the taper off DT line?

On 26 Nov, 21:09, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the taper
of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have better
line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted flies with
ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly presentation
wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom

The taper is not useless, it is still required, but is achieved by
using a steeply tapered leader and the appropriate nylon, ( stiff!),
and if you try this using a level leader, attached to level line ( or
the level belly of a DT) , or a normal "limp" leader, or a normal DT,
( unless it is a very heavy line), you will have problems. The leader
is tapered sharply, in order to allow turn over of the heavy fly
without too much "kick back", and also to allow the fly to be moved
properly at all. The steeply tapered leader is essential for power
transmission to the heavy fly.

If a standard tapered DT is used, most of the energy is dissipated
when the taper turns over, and there is simply not enough left to
propel the leader and a heavy fly. The fly just flops about out of
control.

The main reason for such a rig is also not casting, although it does
make it easier to control heavy flies, but in the very superior line
control which results. It would be easier to cast such heavy rigs
using light spinning gear, but then you have no control at all, as it
is more or less impossible to mend or otherwise control nylon or other
line in such a way as to affect the presentation of the fly.

I use a similar line/leader when casting heavy flies for pike fishing,
but there the casting ease is of more importance. I also use a similar
head for casting heavy flies on light gear.

There are many arguments that this is not fly-fishing. May be so, I don
´t know, and I don´t much care, it is however one of the few gear set-
ups which will allow half-way decent casting and control of heavy set-
ups. If that is what is required, then there is no reason why one
should not use it.

Using a heavy level line will achieve much the same thing, but you
still need a sharply tapered leader. This is also not a distance
rig! basically only suitable for short to middle range
presentations. The lack of taper on a level line affects its casting
properties considerably.

If you wish to retain the properties of your line, then consider
making up a multi tip rig like this;
http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/juro.htm

this gives you a very versatile basic rig, and you can still use the
"cut" DT as normal if desired.

TL
MC

ALL THIS IS MERELY MY OPINION!!! If you don´t like it, or disagree
with it, that is just fine with me.

On 27 Nov, 08:02, Mike wrote:


A couple of other points of note if you want to experiment with this.
After you cut the line, seal the end with an appropriate waterproof
glue.

This rig allows greater control for several reasons. The line can be
mended right to the tip. The line IS EQUALLY BUOYANT right to the tip.
This means that your fly is fishing immediately below the tip of the
line. With a tapered line, the tip is less buoyant, and usually pulled
under by heavy rigs. This means that an indeterminate amount of fly
line is below the surface, and out of your control. This also affects
precise depth presentation. With very heavy rigs, you may still need
a buoyant strike indicator to overcome this, even when using a buoyant
level line.

Precise depth presentations can be all important!

By mending, one can manoeuver the fly very close to undercut banks,
various obstructions etc, and still know exactly where the fly is.
This is more or less impossible when the front taper of the line has
sunk to some depth or other. Knowing exactly where your fly is can
save you a lot of snagging, still allow you to fish in difficult
places, and results in more and bigger fish.

TL
MC

ALL THIS IS MERELY MY OPINION!!! If you don´t like it, or disagree
with it, that is just fine with me.

"daytripper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:10:11 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"


So what's a level taper fly line?
-tom
ahahahaha!
yeah, that's pretty awkward, "taper" in that phrase is superfluous.
I think "level line" would do it...

/daytripper (not paid by the word)


It was almost like waiting for the rainbow to take the fly.

I was doing my own research on this matter and found that
"Level Line" is a little different than Double Taper Line (regardless of the
taper). As you know DT line is easy to mend and roll cast due to the long
continuous belly of the line. The Level Line is usually of fine diameter
and can be used for shooting heads or inexpensive sinking lines. The Level
Line won't roll cast or mend as well. And this is probably why some anglers
cut the taper off the DT line, when there is no delicate presentation
involved. I would never call it a "waste" if the angler/s are using it
effectively to catch fish.

You can read about the function of the taper, the type of tapers, he
http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choo...ome.html#Taper

I know some of you anglers are very proficient in your fly-fishing ways. For
others like myself, I do enjoy reading, researching and trying new methods
and techniques. What I like about this newsgroup is reading the TR's and
the techniques used, wish there was more of that instead of the name calling
and **** wars. I feel if someone has an idea, be open to share it.
-tom

Mike wrote:
Mike wrote:


A couple of other points of note if you want to experiment with this.
snip
ALL THIS IS MERELY MY OPINION!!! If you don´t like it, or disagree
with it, that is just fine with me.

The disclaimer is a bit over the top and not really true
in any case. If disagreement was really just fine with you
then you wouldn't descend into vitriol and invective at
the first hint of it.

And it is considered rude and poor netiquette to respond to
your own post. You should give enough thoughtful consideration
to your responses so that one is enough.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 08:02, Mike wrote:


A couple of other points of note if you want to experiment with this.
After you cut the line, seal the end with an appropriate waterproof
glue.

This rig allows greater control for several reasons. The line can be
mended right to the tip. The line IS EQUALLY BUOYANT right to the tip.
This means that your fly is fishing immediately below the tip of the
line. With a tapered line, the tip is less buoyant, and usually pulled
under by heavy rigs. This means that an indeterminate amount of fly
line is below the surface, and out of your control. This also affects
precise depth presentation. With very heavy rigs, you may still need
a buoyant strike indicator to overcome this, even when using a buoyant
level line.

Precise depth presentations can be all important!

By mending, one can manoeuver the fly very close to undercut banks,
various obstructions etc, and still know exactly where the fly is.
This is more or less impossible when the front taper of the line has
sunk to some depth or other. Knowing exactly where your fly is can
save you a lot of snagging, still allow you to fish in difficult
places, and results in more and bigger fish.

TL
MC

Well Mike, I'll have to say, you figured it out.
I enjoyed reading what you wrote.

Yes, the idea of cutting the taper off (one side) DT line is partly for the
"buoyancy". You'll have to seal the end of the line indeed (common sense).
Also the mending control application, to send a "cast mend" right to the
beginning of the strike indicator, which is less drag on the drifting
nymphs. The idea is to get that drift right.

As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:



As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

On 27 Nov, 16:29, Mike wrote:
On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:



As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.


PS. The stiffer the nylon, the lesser diameter you can use.

TL
MC

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:



As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT
line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

Mike you may have missed this part,
It's the custom leader for the drifting nymphs:

After cutting off the taper off the DT line, a 30" piece of 40 lb. test butt
section was attached with a nail knot. Attached to that a 12" piece of 20
lb. test attached with a double uni-knot (I'm sure for movement). Attached
to that is a 36" piece of 10 lb. test tippet by way of blood knot. A 12"
tag out of the 36" piece is tied to the 1st fly. Added was a 24" piece of 10
lb. tippet to the 2nd fly. 2- Split shots were added before the 1st fly (or
splits depending on current flow), and yes a strike indicator on the 40 lb.
test section.

With this rig, I don't see the need for the taper.
Ability to throw the rig with the heavy belly line.
Good management to control the line for the drift.
Good drift of the nymphs.
-tom

On 27 Nov, 16:53, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT
line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

Mike you may have missed this part,
It's the custom leader for the drifting nymphs:

After cutting off the taper off the DT line, a 30" piece of 40 lb. test butt
section was attached with a nail knot. Attached to that a 12" piece of 20
lb. test attached with a double uni-knot (I'm sure for movement). Attached
to that is a 36" piece of 10 lb. test tippet by way of blood knot. A 12"
tag out of the 36" piece is tied to the 1st fly. Added was a 24" piece of 10
lb. tippet to the 2nd fly. 2- Split shots were added before the 1st fly (or
splits depending on current flow), and yes a strike indicator on the 40 lb..
test section.

With this rig, I don't see the need for the taper.
Ability to throw the rig with the heavy belly line.
Good management to control the line for the drift.
Good drift of the nymphs.
-tom

No, I didn´t miss it. THAT IS THE "TAPER". These rigs wont work very
well without a taper of some sort. In this case the leader is the
taper. The energy transfer to the leader is direct from the fly-line,
and as it is the thick ( belly )level part of the line, the maximum
energy is transferred directly to the stiff leader butt, and so on.
This causes the leader to straighten when casting, and allows control.

If one merely attaches a standard tapered leader to the line, or
indeed any leader without a steep taper originating in a stiff nylon
butt close to the line diameter, then it will kick back massively
causing tangles and loss of control.

TL
MC

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 16:53, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT
line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

Mike you may have missed this part,
It's the custom leader for the drifting nymphs:

After cutting off the taper off the DT line, a 30" piece of 40 lb. test
butt
section was attached with a nail knot. Attached to that a 12" piece of 20
lb. test attached with a double uni-knot (I'm sure for movement).
Attached
to that is a 36" piece of 10 lb. test tippet by way of blood knot. A 12"
tag out of the 36" piece is tied to the 1st fly. Added was a 24" piece of
10
lb. tippet to the 2nd fly. 2- Split shots were added before the 1st fly
(or
splits depending on current flow), and yes a strike indicator on the 40
lb.
test section.

With this rig, I don't see the need for the taper.
Ability to throw the rig with the heavy belly line.
Good management to control the line for the drift.
Good drift of the nymphs.
-tom

No, I didn´t miss it. THAT IS THE "TAPER". These rigs wont work very
well without a taper of some sort. In this case the leader is the
taper. The energy transfer to the leader is direct from the fly-line,
and as it is the thick ( belly )level part of the line, the maximum
energy is transferred directly to the stiff leader butt, and so on.
This causes the leader to straighten when casting, and allows control.

If one merely attaches a standard tapered leader to the line, or
indeed any leader without a steep taper originating in a stiff nylon
butt close to the line diameter, then it will kick back massively
causing tangles and loss of control.

TL
MC

YES, you got it!
-tom