Long tapered leaders

Steve a écrit :

Have you tried this?
http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...c/download.php



Quite interesting, thanks for sharing.

--
Hope to read you soon,

Denis
www.uqtr.ca/~lamyd

You'll have to eat the SPAM to E-mail

Man, you guys are really uptight about your leaders.

Was it you that wrote that knotted leaders turn over better than
knotless because the knots are "power transmitters," or something like
that?

That's absurd. It's not physical. Makes no sense at all.


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I have tried the knotless many times for dry flies and have always
found a well tied, compound leader to be more accurate. It has to do
with the energy transfer of a larger diameter section producing
sufficient force to carry into the next section, which can also be of a
softer grade. It has nothing to do with the knots.

I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but it does. It's the same thing
as a "Garrison" (compound) tapered bamboo fly rod being more efficient
and accurate than a "single" taper.

Another reason I posted this formula was because this leader has a 36"
tippet, which will cause far less surface drag than the more standard
18" tippet. There is also drag that the fisherman cannot see, but the
fish can. This is sometimes termed "micro-drag," and often causes
refusals.

I still use the knotless for nymphs, and use a shorter leader for that,
usually 7 to 9 foot. I'll even use 'em for a large bushy fly on a small
creek, no big deal.

But that's a different presentation entirely than the more "technical"
fishing, with oftentimes a tiny dry fly on complex, gin-clear braided
currents, like on a Limestoner.

This formula was also developed by an old-timer who specialized in
limestone creeks.


--
rustyspinner
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rustyspinner wrote:
Man, you guys are really uptight about your leaders.

Was it you that wrote that knotted leaders turn over better than
knotless because the knots are "power transmitters," or something like
that?

That's absurd. It's not physical. Makes no sense at all.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried the knotless many times for dry flies and have always
found a well tied, compound leader to be more accurate. It has to do
with the energy transfer of a larger diameter section producing
sufficient force to carry into the next section, which can also be of a
softer grade. It has nothing to do with the knots.

OK, an advantage in having a transition to a softer-grade section is at
least plausible.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote


OK, an advantage in having a transition to a softer-grade section is at
least plausible.



For the nearly nothing it's worth, I've given "Harvey Style" knotted leaders
serious testing over the years.

They are very nice casting ( dry fly 'techy water' ) but I've given up on
them. The bad side effects of all those knots outweighs the slightly
better casting ... for me ... the worst bad effects revolve mainly around
knots picking up weed ( always a problem after early season in fertile
creeks, sometimes THE problem on HFork with its heavy growths combined with
varying, dam controlled flows )


IMHO, anybody with a serious interest in fishing dry flies to very picky
fish should give a leader with a thin butt, long taper and long tippet (
basic idea of the Harvey leader ) a solid try, if only to make an educated
decision to not use them. Historically they are what is considered best
for this type of angling.


My current leader choice for, say, Silver Creek .... starts as a RIO 7.5'
3X .... I mike it and cut it off about half the 3X I tie a tippet
ring to the 3X and add tippet to suit the day. Anything from 3X to
6X works ok tied directly to the ring ( with appropriate fly ) ... 7X works
best if you make a compound tippet 5 then 7X .... my 'average' tippet is
going to run very nearly 3 feet and thus the leader is about 9 to 10.5 feet
as fished ( always balance tippet to the fly being used with some test casts
.... if you can't turn over the fly well when trying to, thicker or shorter,
..... if a gentle effort to pile slack straightens out anyway .. thinner or
longer )


I DO use a knotted leader ( a special formula very diiferent than
Harveys ) .. to use with there is high wind ( and not on my 4wt rod that I
use most often ) ... and my 'nymphing only' 6wt has a knotted leader I got
from a Borger book hat lobs lead and bobber well but still has a thin tippet
for fast sinking


On the waters I most enjoy I consider the leader and the line to be the most
important tackle items ... I don't need a fancy rod, but I feel severely
handicapped with a poor choice in either of those ( and almost always
pattern is more important than 'presentation school' anglers are willing to
believe :-)

"Larry L" wrote


My current leader choice for, say, Silver Creek .... starts as a RIO
7.5' 3X ....




Above for 'average' flies over normal size range


If it was trico time I'd start with a RIO 9ft 7X ... cut it back to 4X, add
ring, and go from there .... this gives a thinner butt and longer finished
leader that works better ... for me ... when the fish are at their most
hammered, and, thus, often, most picky best

"rw" wrote in message
m...
OK, an advantage in having a transition to a softer-grade section is at
least plausible.

for whatever reason, the Harvey design works, and works well. One advantage,
not noted, was that one seldom needs drop below 6x, even for Tricos and the
like. This leader design will present dries with a series of gentle curves
in the tippet section only, and one needn't resort to 7x, 8x tippets to fool
very wary trout in clear water.
Tom

Thanks for all the repost.
-tom

"Larry L" wrote

, thus the mantra of 'turn over your
fly' )


I woke up this morning thinking that maybe some lurker out there might get
the wrong idea from my comments in this thread.

The phrases I use like "pile of slack" never imply the fly isn't 'turned
over' ... in other words, the fly should always land farther from the
angler than any of the leader ... if the leader bends back on itself and the
fly is closer than that bend, less tippet or thicker tippet is called for
( with that fly )


In 'slack casts' the line and/ or leader fall in wiggles, and bends like a
meadow stream often runs its course. The very worthwhile goal I'm
advocating here is to practice and learn to control the position and amount
of that wiggle and those bends. Like controlling loop size there is a big
advantage in being able to lay out a very straight line and leader, one very
wiggly , or many steps in between, at will, and with full understanding of
the why and where of each.

As I said differently elsewhere in this tread ... start with a leader you
can lay down very nearly straight ( with the fly in use ) with a 'text book'
cast and then learn to cast poorly, on demand, for adding and controlling
the wiggle when you want it. Do not depend on the leader to produce the
wiggle on it's own ( basically too thin and too much tippet ) or it always
will, even when a straightened leader would be better in a given situation.


Again, I assume all the regulars around here are far more skilled and
knowledgeable than myself, but I like to think that someone out there might
get some advantage from reading ROFF... occasionally G


Larry L ( 'very nearly straight' still has a tiny bit of wiggle in the last
segment of tippet for dry fly use ... language is not my .. what is that
word, you know ... ah, ..well, ... I just ain't good at it )

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

Larry L ( 'very nearly straight' still has a tiny bit of wiggle in the
last segment of tippet for dry fly use

In my case I had a very slight curve to the 9' leader, 18" tippet, and
fly-line.
There were two things I corrected that allowed me to straighten out the
leader/tippet/fly and fly-line.

1. Soften up on the last forward cast. I had a tendency to put a little
whump on the final forward cast. Since softening up and coming to a gentle
stop, I was able to take out the ever-so-slight shock. You still however
have to follow-through and lay it down on the final forward cast.

2. Come completely vertical on the back and forward cast. When I
wasn't complete vertical it produces a natural bow in the line and transfers
to
the leader/tippet/fly. Since casting vertical and easing up on the final
forward
cast, I can now cast completely straight...just have to learn to do it with
12'
leaders now.

As Lary L has said, there are times when you want a deliberate curve in the
cast; mending, curve casting behind objects, wiggle cast.

The split cane rod (soft rod) has taught me a lot about my casting stroke.
I've learned to soften-up and smooth out my cast, more of a fineness move
instead of a power application.
-tom

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...

When I visited western NC and the Smokies, I found that using a
short leader (less than rod length) worked best for dealing with the
overgrowth and tight quarters. When I met up with Wolfgang on an open
stretch of the Little River, he handed me a rod with about a 12'
leader (is that right, Wolfgang?) and told me to give that a try.

Yeah, I believe it was something like that.

To my eyes, my casts looked horrible; the leader landed in a pile
each time. But, the fish seemed more than happy to jump all over the
fly. Due to the slack, I missed some fish (and even had one fish that
I had "missed" somehow wind up on the end of my line after I finally
got all the slack in). But I had better luck when I followed
Wolfgang's advice and lengthened the leader on my own rig and stopped
worrying about how "pretty" my casts were.

I still struggle when I've got a leader much longer than the rod,
but I've been playing around with it more ever since that trip, and
when conditions permit, I'll definitely fish a longer leader.

A longer leader is definitely more difficult to handle, especially with
shorter, lighter, and/or slower rods. And there's no doubt that it is
sometimes unnecessary. But, it's pretty much like anything else in that
once you get used to it everything else feels wrong. Moreover, I've never
encountered a situation where a longer leader on the water in dry fly
fishing was a hindrance. In the air.....or the shrubbery.....is another
matter entirely.

Chuck Vance (now if I could just learn to throw slack line on
purpose)

The first rule of expert marksmanship is to identify the target after the
shot. Doubtless, there are applicable corollaries.

Wolfgang