OT In defense of pirates ...

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:28:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a
qualified gunner. *Dave

I guess you can argue anything......but the Somali pirates are pirates
and I am sure not taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Wrong
is wrong.

Have to agree with Dave. Quite inexpensive given the alternative.

OK, just for grins...

One or two guys, with a single heavy machine gun on a 500-plus foot ship with
low freeboard. Now, add into the equation that those one or two guys are hired
guns. What you have is a recipe for a total, complete cluster****. If you are
in favor of a armed response, this is not the way to go about it. And
huffingtonpost nonsense aside, these aren't farmers with pitchfolks, they are
pirates with real weapons (regardless of whether or not some might have once
been farmers/fishermen). Let me ask you this - do you favor putting mercenaries
in _your_ local bank - you know, the one where you and your family bank - with
orders to open fire on any potential robbers? If not, why not?

HTH,
R

Man's a sorry lot...

Guy

Maybe I have lost focus here....but these people are dirt floor poor, okay?

I did have have hopes that the Navy opened up with one of those mini-guns
where their tracers look like a torch light, but my greatest kick was
hearing the news media trying to dramatize this event by saying it was long
range sniper fire at 35 meters!

****, those boys can put a knife in your eye at that distance...hell, my
greatest fear is getting belligerant drunk and ****in' off a seal.

But back to the dirt floor poor, I wonder how many people here have ever
seen dirt floor poor....seen the people sorting through the garbage from a
US base just to get food....or seen a village downstream from where Vectren
was spraying Agent Orange to eradicate a cocoa crop. I have.

Hey, Africa is a **** hole and it's going to be a **** hole for years to
come....it takes an iron fisted tyrant like Sadam to create any sense of
stability....

No food, no water, no fish...Sorry boys, but if it was me and mine or
yours.....I'd steal from you to feed mine.

.....and those 'pirates' well, google it up and tell me if they ever robbed
and raped tourists....molested the crew and stole the crew's
possesioins....or was it only holding the tanker so that the 'nameless' big
corporations would pay and not the family of the little man....

Ken, damned good link but I think maybe a little too much for some of the
little people here....you have to educate them little by little...

I don't stand, I beg to be corrected...


.....and on an off topic NOTE, the spring rains are in full tilt and I've
been to the shop getting ready for the sprin run of smallmouth!

john

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Caca snipped.

Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a
qualified gunner. When the pirates come into the effective range of
that .50 (about 2000 yards), a short burst should easily dissuade
anyone from being a threat. You could also have another gunner with a
50 cal M107 (probably what the Seals used in rescuing our captain).
If they insist, the gunner could cut the small craft in half with such
a weapon and the M107 gunner could pick and choose the threats. Works
for me. Leave the ships alone and the pirates can live as long as
they want. Really simple when you think about it.

And, there are plenty of mercenaries world-wide that would/could do
the job.

Dave




Have gun, will travel.

Wire John.

On Apr 13, 6:30*pm, wrote:

Dave,
Given that ~ 20,000 ships annually pass through those waters and the
pirates only got 111 ships last year (70 some so far this year), the
economic costs (let alone the legal, moral, safety - if an oil
tanker- *and other considerations) of providing trained armed security
and weaponry (at least 3 expensive - probably need 6 for very large
ships - trained extra crew members + night vision goggles + the
weapons themselves) for every ship plying those waters would exceed
the money paid out in ransom. *The piracy needs to be stopped but
there are probably better ways to do it.

Ken,
*As valid as the grievances that the Somalis have are, they cannot
justify outright theft and extortion. When they travel 200 and more
miles from their coast just to seek out their prey of merchant ships
for the lucrative returns they provide, they cannot claim that they
are protecting the integrity of their country or doing it because they
are hungry. *Reports I have read say that many of the pirates are
building villas and buying luxury cars with the income from their
piracy. *If true, and I have little reason to doubt the reports,
that's greed not hunger. BTW although the Somalian piracy is in the
news - the problem is almost as bad around in the Malacca straits and
other restricted waterways in SE Asia.

Bob Weinberger

Bob Weinberger- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Picking up on what Bob said in the first paragraph. . . .

The disruption is bigger and more significant than has thus far been
acknowledged.
First, Mombasa, down the coast in Kenya is the most important semi
modern port in East Africa. We are dealing with a continuing
harassment of one of the Worlds and certainly Africa's, main trade
routes. Mombasa is THE main port for food aide, and a good portion of
the commodities that Central and East Africa support themselves with.

Second: You want some real ****? How about shredding the supply chain
that feeds Mombasa and triggering a famine that spreads across Africa,
with massive waves of hunger and instability driven migration. A
disaster in short. And the kind of hunger disaster that has happened
in scale before in modern history. It is simply not acceptable that
some street gang-bangers-with-outboards get to threaten the other
couple hundred millions of people in that part of Africa.

Third: Certainly Somalia needs some form of government. And at this
point just about any form of *******-on-a-camel centralized rule will
do. I don't see that its our job to decide for them, shell out tons of
money, or do anything on the ground but just let it happen. Even if
its the "Islamic Courts" I don't give a ****. But what we need to do
NOW for our own interests, and what we can do cheaply is cull some of
the bad guys, the arsonists, the few hundred that are playing with
matches on the African powder keg. This is why we have a Navy.

Fourth: The fishing thing. Hey, its not us this time. There ARE other
*******s in the World folks. In this Case Japan, Spain, Norway, and a
few other are the rapacious interlopers on the Somali offshore
resource. And its a problem in other places where they exploit
weakness or corruption. Some aide to the ultra poor countries to buy/
train for better coast guard and resource protection might be a better
aide buy than repeat food aide. But right now these guys are pirates
who have gone far over the line. And think about it . . .right now
they have lots of new boats, crews, a mother ship or two, weapons,
excellent communications, and yet . . . are they protecting a Somali
fishing fleet? Nope. Why? They are pirates.

Dave
Where is JR. He knows this part of the World, ditto Riverman?

On Apr 13, 7:56*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:43:14 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

Caca snipped.

Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a
qualified gunner. *When the pirates come into the effective range of
that .50 (about 2000 yards), a short burst should easily dissuade
anyone from being a threat. *You could also have another gunner with a
50 cal M107 (probably what the Seals used in rescuing our captain).
If they insist, the gunner could cut the small craft in half with such
a weapon and the M107 gunner could pick and choose the threats. *Works
for me. *Leave the ships alone and the pirates can live as long as
they want. *Really simple when you think about it.

And, there are plenty of mercenaries world-wide that would/could do
the job. *

Perhaps since your stock portfolio is down and you're an old sea dog warrior
with some SuperWaders, maybe you could pick up some coin to help you through
your dotage...

Here's an old seal trick - if you run out of bull-yets...throw your ball at
them...or slap 'em with a mackerel...

HTH,
R



Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I guess I think light. The right 3 guys firing 22 hornets would seem
enough, except maybe for the man firing thru the bow porthole.

Dave

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:39:53 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Another side of the story:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_155147.html

A few questions:

1. If Obama is such a smart, savvy guy, why didn't he know what this guy on the
huffingtonpost "knows"...?

2. If he didn't know, why not?

3. If he did know, why did he order his military to kill these poor starving
freedom-fighting members of the Somali Coast Guard Auxiliary?

4. Whatever he knew, why in the hell is the President of the United States
issuing press briefs bragging about how he personally gave the go ahead for the
take-down...?

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Another side of the story:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_155147.html

A few questions:
stupid **** snipped

Damn, the antenna on your tinfoil hood is *smokin'* this morning !

I hope you remembered to put an oven mitt on top of your head before
you put your hood on this morning. Antenna gets that worked up you
could burn a hole on your pate.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:25:47 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Another side of the story:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_155147.html

A few questions:
stupid **** snipped

Damn, the antenna on your tinfoil hood is *smokin'* this morning !

I hope you remembered to put an oven mitt on top of your head before
you put your hood on this morning. Antenna gets that worked up you
could burn a hole on your pate.

I could be wrapped in layers of tin foil separated by oven mitts, but that still
leaves a few questions, based upon your own cite above and recent claims:

1. If Obama is such a smart, savvy guy, why didn't he know what this guy on the
huffingtonpost "knows"...?

2. If he didn't know, why not?

3. If he did know, why did he order his military to kill these poor starving
freedom-fighting members of the Somali Coast Guard Auxiliary?

4. Whatever he knew, why in the hell is the President of the United States
issuing press briefs bragging about how he personally gave the go ahead for the
take-down...?

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
A few questions:
stupid **** snipped
Damn, the antenna on your tinfoil hood is *smokin'* this morning !

I hope you remembered to put an oven mitt on top of your head before
you put your hood on this morning. Antenna gets that worked up you
could burn a hole on your pate.

I could be wrapped in layers of tin foil separated by oven mitts, but that still
leaves a few questions, based upon your own cite above and recent claims:

**** *STILL* too stupid to merit a response snipped

You'd think that with the antenna shaking like a dog passing a peach
pit there'd be something better than silliness going on there at the
Uh oh, tee-hee, tsk, tsk, tsk desk this morning. Is that all you got
today Rick Bean Deancounter ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:10:37 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Apr 13, 7:56*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:43:14 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

Caca snipped.

Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a
qualified gunner. *When the pirates come into the effective range of
that .50 (about 2000 yards), a short burst should easily dissuade
anyone from being a threat. *You could also have another gunner with a
50 cal M107 (probably what the Seals used in rescuing our captain).
If they insist, the gunner could cut the small craft in half with such
a weapon and the M107 gunner could pick and choose the threats. *Works
for me. *Leave the ships alone and the pirates can live as long as
they want. *Really simple when you think about it.

And, there are plenty of mercenaries world-wide that would/could do
the job. *

Perhaps since your stock portfolio is down and you're an old sea dog warrior
with some SuperWaders, maybe you could pick up some coin to help you through
your dotage...

Here's an old seal trick - if you run out of bull-yets...throw your ball at
them...or slap 'em with a mackerel...

HTH,
R



Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I guess I think light.

I'd agree with that...

The right 3 guys firing 22 hornets would seem
enough,

Yeah, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman...hey, no need to be sexist in this
comic-book idea of yours...

except maybe for the man firing thru the bow porthole.

Oh, there's a fourth guy firing forward...that'll make all the difference in the
world, then...


....and on the downside, your plan consists of having four guys with varmint
rifles trying to defend over an acre of floating, unarmored target in the middle
of the ocean against a potential swarm of small boats of unknown armoring crewed
by unknowns with unknown weapons...

....yeah, there's no chance such a bit of military genius might result in a major
mess, complete with civilian crews being dragged around offshore right off of
Mogadishu like ****ing teasers and made into chum...

Geez, how is it you never made Lord High Admiral, there, Sarge...?

HTH,
R

Dave