worst ff thing to lose

In message , Bill Grey
writes
In message
,
mr.rapidan writes
Isn't an air embolism different than nitrogen narcosis?

Yes indeed!

Nitrogen Narcosis: see:-

http://www.answers.com/topic/nitroge...s-and-symptoms

The bends see:-

http://scuba-diving.suite101.com/art...n_scuba_diving

Air embolism see:-

http://scuba-diving.suite101.com/art...ba_dive_ascent
--
Bill Grey

On 2009-09-28 15:48:03 -0400, rw said:

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 14:31:30 -0400, Bill Grey said:

Yes indeed a simple mistake for the uninitiated but with possible long
lasting consequences. The trick would have been to surface no faster
than your bubbles assuming you were breathing out.


Correct! Years later when I got my NAUI ticket I thought of that day
in Back Lake.

Dave



You wouldn't have had to worry about the bends (nitrogen narcosis) at
that depth. What you should have worried about was the buildup of a
toxic concentration of carbon dioxide in the diving bell.

We had released much of our stored air before we went into the bell.
Took a lung full and back under. The bell wouldn't let us get too much
co2 because after four breaths (two apeace) the water level had risen
(removing the air each breath) to the point were we could hardly get
our lips above the water level. Taking a breath air that is under
pressure at 12 or so feet can be dangerous if you didn't let it out
while surfacing. I know, I know, it is only about 1/3 an atmosphere,
but there is some danger. It certainly was fun!

Dave

On 2009-09-28 16:29:56 -0400, "mr.rapidan" said:

On Sep 28, 3:48*pm, rw wrote:
David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 14:31:30 -0400, Bill Grey sa
id:

Yes indeed a simple mistake for the uninitiated but with possible long
lasting consequences. *The trick would have been to surface no faste
r
than your bubbles assuming you were breathing out.

Correct! *Years later when I got my NAUI ticket I thought of that day
in
Back Lake.

Dave

You wouldn't have had to worry about the bends (nitrogen narcosis) at
that depth. What you should have worried about was the buildup of a
toxic concentration of carbon dioxide in the diving bell.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


Isn't an air embolism different than nitrogen narcosis?

I don't know anything about it, I was just curious after reading
Dave's very interesting story . . .

Air embolism - a condition resulting from excess pressure in the lungs-
is probably the second most common cause of scuba fatalities. When a
man loses his air supply under water, he has an overwhelming instinct
to hold his breath and surface immediately. The lack of adequate
exhalation during ascent in panic creates excessive pressure in the
lungs. This condition has produced air embolism in less than 15 feet
of water. Increased lung pressure may also occur in a normal ascent if
the diver fails to breathe continuously.

nitrogen narcosis
n. A condition of confusion or stupor resulting from increased levels
of dissolved nitrogen in the blood, as that occurring in deep-sea
divers breathing air under high pressure.

Yeah, it's called busting a lung and it could happen in water of 12 or
so feet. We were told to make sure we exhaled while coming up from 10
feet in a swimming pool while undergoing training. It would have been
very easy to surface with that lung full of air without releasing some
of it.

Dave

On Sep 28, 12:31*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 12:23:38 -0400, "Fred" said:







On 28-Sep-2009, rw wrote:

but when I thought about the fly boxes my
stomach turned. They were literally irreplaceable.

I found my stuff. No new gear upgrade this year (except for sal****er)..

You are lucky!
I turned over a canoe once while fishing and lost my prescription glasses
$400 to $450 *& a * camera
I saved my fly rod

I would hate to lose fly boxes but they are in the *pockets of my vest

Fred

OK, here's one, happened to me when I was about 12 yo. *We were in a
cottage on Back Lake (Connecticut Lakes Region) when a guy tipped over
his boat losing all his spinning gear include his tackle box, and a
very expensive (so he says) knife.

Bruce Bacon, local boy, my age, came up with the idea of a diving bell.
*His mom had a large galvanized wash tub, you know the kind with
handles on each side, about 2 feet deep and with a diameter of about 2
1/2 feet. *We brought the wash tub to the site of the tip over and
secured two paint-bucket-filled-with-congrete anchors to the handles. *
We place the tub in the water up-side-down, but the buckets of cement
weren't heavy enough to sink it. *So, back to shore for two more paint
buckets. *That did the trick.

We had about 4 feet of rope connected to each bucket so that the tub
"floated" about 4 feet from the bottom of Back Lake.

Bruce was first. *With fins and a fact mask, he dove down (about 12
feet) and started the search for the guy's equipment. *When he needed a
breath of air, he went under the tub and up. *As he took his breath of
air, the water level rose (of course), and he swam around another
minute or so looking for more stuff. *He came to the surface with two
plastic boxes of spinning lures.

My turn. *I dove down, searched around for a minute or so and found the
knive. *I then swam under the bucket and up into the air pocket, took a
breath (water rising) and continued my search for more stuff. *After we
each had made two dives, we had to "restock" the air in the tub.

Bruce said that we should blow out all the air as we rose to the
surface. *He didn't say why. *It wasn't until years later that I
realized how dangerous this "diving bell" was.

Hm.....

12 feet to the bottom and a diving bell 4 ft. above that. Let's see
now.....naught times naught is naught.....carry the
naught.....um.....I make it about 8 feet. About the depth of the deep
end of an ordinary swimming pool.....if there's a diving board. Aside
from stray drops of water breaching the hull of the bell at bullet
velocities from the pressure at that depth, I'd say that, as usual,
the danger is mostly in your head.

Long story longer: *We found most of the guy's stuff, including two
spinning rods/reels, another plastic box of lures and a belt (?). *The
guy gave us each $5, a helluva lot of money in 1949.

Dave ( who was NOT a diver in the Navy)-

No, you certainly weren't.

g.

Wayne Harrison wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote

Dave ( who was NOT a diver in the Navy)



tales of the weird: about 30 years ago, pamlico jim and i and another guy
were way up a tiny tributary to the alligator river in far eastern nc, jump
shooting ducks. water was black as tar. the boat owner/operator was
reckless as hell, and we were winding our way upstream far to fast. he
rounded a turn in the creek, the boat hit something (never found out what),
and out we all went, asses over elbows. my brand new browning pump came
along for the ride. miraculously, no one was hurt, and the boat simply
stuck itself in shoreline flora. i figured my gun was a goner. jim said he
would come back with some equipment and look for it, but i didn't figure
there was any chance.
next weekend, i'm back in greensboro, and jim calls. says he has my
gun, but it's "frozen up". he had taken another buddy back to the scene of
the crime, and they dove in 6-8' of black water feeling along the bottom.
amazingly, they found the damn gun. i asked him to take it to a gunsmith
and have him try to render it at least minimally operative. a couple weeks
later, i go down to pick up my browning, once again thinking the gunsmith
would just sadly shake his head and present me with a bill for his failed
efforts.
long story short, the damn gun, which was a pump, had been transformed
into the smoothest, sweetest functioning firearm i have ever experienced.
the smithy had torn it completely down, and cleaned/honed/polished every
surface. the action would operate by gravity alone. yeah, i paid him a ton
of money, but it was worth it. i ran a bunch of shells through "ol' swampy"
for about the next couple decades, until it was stolen from my old homeplace
by some sonofabitch from southern rowan county.
i hope it blew up in his face in some godforsaken dove field.

yfitons
wayno




jack byrum...had to be a jack byrum run up the creek if it wasn't jim at
the helm of the grim reaper taunting. jack, who died much too young,
but lived more years in a week than any human i ever knew, was reported
to enjoy climbing out the driver's side window of his car, leaving a
baffled passenger grasping the wheel, while he climbed over the top and
into the passenger side window...claiming it was a waste of time and
territory to stop just to change drivers.

jeff

On Sep 28, 1:31*pm, Bill Grey wrote:
In message 200909281331238930-dplacourse@aolcom, David LaCourse
writes



Bruce said that we should blow out all the air as we rose to the
surface. He didn't say why. *It wasn't until years later that I
realized how dangerous this "diving bell" was.

Yes indeed a simple mistake for the uninitiated but with possible long
lasting consequences. *The trick would have been to surface no faster
than your bubbles assuming you were breathing out.

Air embolisms are nasty things.
--
Bill Grey

From a depth of twelve feet (assuming one started out in the prone
position on the lake/stream/sea bed) it would most certainly be unsafe
to rise to the surface at a pace any greater than mach 2. Anything
less than that......um......well, 863 mph still sounds pretty risky to
me, but I've grown somewhat averse to needless risk at my advanced
age. At any rate, no human being, relying simply on his or her own
inherent motive power could possibly surface from that depth at a
dangerous pace. And anything that could accelerate a human being to a
dangerous speed over a distance of twleve feet would kill him or her
with the acceleration.....that's the part that would be dangerous.

g.

On Sep 28, 2:48*pm, rw wrote:
David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 14:31:30 -0400, Bill Grey said:

Yes indeed a simple mistake for the uninitiated but with possible long
lasting consequences. *The trick would have been to surface no faster
than your bubbles assuming you were breathing out.

Correct! *Years later when I got my NAUI ticket I thought of that day in
Back Lake.

Dave

You wouldn't have had to worry about the bends (nitrogen narcosis) at
that depth. What you should have worried about was the buildup of a
toxic concentration of carbon dioxide in the diving bell.

Good god, is there no end to self-satisfied fatuous ignorance? Didn't
he say that the water rose in the bell with each dive? Did he say
that it lowered again when they exhaled back into the bell? Carbon
dioxide buildup would require that all or at least some of the air
inhaled from it would have to be expelled back into it, don'tcha
think? And the bends?!?! and nitrogen narcosis?!?! (which, by the way
are not the same thing). Good god, there is no end to self-satisfied
fatuous ignorance!!

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EIGHT ****IN' FEET OF WATER HERE, PEOPLE!!!!!!

G.

On Sep 28, 3:29*pm, "mr.rapidan" wrote:
On Sep 28, 3:48*pm, rw wrote:





David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 14:31:30 -0400, Bill Grey said:

Yes indeed a simple mistake for the uninitiated but with possible long
lasting consequences. *The trick would have been to surface no faster
than your bubbles assuming you were breathing out.

Correct! *Years later when I got my NAUI ticket I thought of that day in
Back Lake.

Dave

You wouldn't have had to worry about the bends (nitrogen narcosis) at
that depth. What you should have worried about was the buildup of a
toxic concentration of carbon dioxide in the diving bell.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Isn't an air embolism different than nitrogen narcosis?

I don't know anything about it, I was just curious after reading
Dave's very interesting story . . .

Air embolism - a condition resulting from excess pressure in the lungs-
is probably the second most common cause of scuba fatalities. When a
man loses his air supply under water, he has an overwhelming instinct
to hold his breath and surface immediately. The lack of adequate
exhalation during ascent in panic creates excessive pressure in the
lungs. This condition has produced air embolism in less than 15 feet
of water. Increased lung pressure may also occur in a normal ascent if
the diver fails to breathe continuously.

nitrogen narcosis
n. *A condition of confusion or stupor resulting from increased levels
of dissolved nitrogen in the blood, as that occurring in deep-sea
divers breathing air under high pressure

Interesting set of observations from someone who doesn't know anything
about it.

g.

On Sep 28, 3:54*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 15:48:03 -0400, rw said:





David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 14:31:30 -0400, Bill Grey said:

Yes indeed a simple mistake for the uninitiated but with possible long
lasting consequences. *The trick would have been to surface no faster
than your bubbles assuming you were breathing out.

Correct! *Years later when I got my NAUI ticket I thought of that day
in Back Lake.

Dave

You wouldn't have had to worry about the bends (nitrogen narcosis) at
that depth. What you should have worried about was the buildup of a
toxic concentration of carbon dioxide in the diving bell.

We had released much of our stored air before we went into the bell. *
Took a lung full and back under. *The bell wouldn't let us get too much
co2 because after four breaths (two apeace) the water level had risen
(removing the air each breath) to the point were we could hardly get
our lips above the water level. *Taking a breath air that is under
pressure at 12 or so feet can be dangerous if you didn't let it out
while surfacing. *I know, I know, it is only about 1/3 an atmosphere,
but there is some danger.

8 feet. About a quarter of an atmosphere.

It certainly was fun!

Sounds like it.

g.

On Sep 28, 4:00*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 16:29:56 -0400, "mr.rapidan" said:





On Sep 28, 3:48*pm, rw wrote:
David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-09-28 14:31:30 -0400, Bill Grey sa
id:

Yes indeed a simple mistake for the uninitiated but with possible long
lasting consequences. *The trick would have been to surface no faste
r
than your bubbles assuming you were breathing out.

Correct! *Years later when I got my NAUI ticket I thought of that day
*in
Back Lake.

Dave

You wouldn't have had to worry about the bends (nitrogen narcosis) at
that depth. What you should have worried about was the buildup of a
toxic concentration of carbon dioxide in the diving bell.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Isn't an air embolism different than nitrogen narcosis?

I don't know anything about it, I was just curious after reading
Dave's very interesting story . . .

Air embolism - a condition resulting from excess pressure in the lungs-
is probably the second most common cause of scuba fatalities. When a
man loses his air supply under water, he has an overwhelming instinct
to hold his breath and surface immediately. The lack of adequate
exhalation during ascent in panic creates excessive pressure in the
lungs. This condition has produced air embolism in less than 15 feet
of water. Increased lung pressure may also occur in a normal ascent if
the diver fails to breathe continuously.

nitrogen narcosis
n. *A condition of confusion or stupor resulting from increased levels
of dissolved nitrogen in the blood, as that occurring in deep-sea
divers breathing air under high pressure.

Yeah, it's called busting a lung and it could happen in water of 12 or
so feet. *We were told to make sure we exhaled while coming up from 10
feet in a swimming pool while undergoing training.

Yeah, and meteor could penetrate your head.....and evidently has.

It would have been
very easy to surface with that lung full of air without releasing some
of it.

It is easy. I've done it hundreds of times.

g.