Bull Trout

Thomas Gnauck wrote:

I have always been told that the only difference between a Dolly and a Bull
was that the Dolly was "sea run"
(similar to the rainbow/steelhead)
Are there actual detectable genetic differences?
I have never heard of the anal adipose alignment identification what are the
other identifiers but it seems a very sketchy
way of calling a bull a bull and then implanting it?


Here's a concise layman's guide to a few phenotypic differences, with
short reference to studies on the genetic differences:

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishing_0601_04.html

They are not nearly as closely related as the great physical resemblance
would lead you to believe.

JR

"Chas Wade" wrote in message
news:TEfUb.180283$nt4.779001@attbi_s51...
It turns out that there are no Dolly Varden in the main rivers that
drain to the coast. There's an isolated population above Sol Duc
falls, and one other location I can't remember now, but all the
"dollies" we catch in the Hoh, Queets, Quinalt, and the rest of the
costal rivers are actually bull trout.


What about the "Dollies" on the Graywolf, a trib of the Dungeness? Are they
actually Bull Trout?

Dave

"David Snedeker" wrote:


What about the "Dollies" on the Graywolf, a trib of the Dungeness? Are
they
actually Bull Trout?


I'll ask Sam on Tuesday. He said no dollies on the costal rivers, but
the Graywolf empties into the straits, so we'll have to ask. Check out
your pictures of them, maybe you can tell if the leading ray of the
anal fin goes farther back than the adipose fin. Andy and I caught 3
bulls on the Hoh Thursday, all of them had the longer anal fin.

Chas
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"David Snedeker" wrote:

What about the "Dollies" on the Graywolf, a trib of the Dungeness? Are
they
actually Bull Trout?


Sam says that the Graywolf has bulls, but the Dungeness has Dollies.
I'll open a new thread later with the details of last night's meeting.

Chas
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Chas Wade wrote:

Sam says that the Graywolf has bulls, but the Dungeness has Dollies.
I'll open a new thread later with the details of last night's meeting.

Chas

So, are they Dungeness Dollies or Graywolf Bulls that I've been catching?
They're obviously a sea run fish due to their size.

Darin

Darin Minor wrote:
Chas Wade wrote:

Sam says that the Graywolf has bulls, but the Dungeness has Dollies.
I'll open a new thread later with the details of last night's
meeting.

Chas

So, are they Dungeness Dollies or Graywolf Bulls that I've been
catching?
They're obviously a sea run fish due to their size.


That's a tough question, Darin. Sam claims to be the first to prove
that Bulls are sometimes anadromous. The point here is that they
haven't found Bulls in the Dungeness, so the Graywolf bulls may not be
anadromous. The question is, where are you catching the fish? How big
are they that you've decided they must be anadromous?

For the real answer, email Sam at:
I'm sure he'll be glad to hear from you, and will have the full answer.
No harm in mentioning that I gave you his Email address.

Chas
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Chas Wade wrote:

That's a tough question, Darin. Sam claims to be the first to prove
that Bulls are sometimes anadromous. The point here is that they
haven't found Bulls in the Dungeness, so the Graywolf bulls may not be
anadromous. The question is, where are you catching the fish? How big
are they that you've decided they must be anadromous?

The smallest I've caught is 22" the biggest is 27". All but 1 were caught
below the hatchery and the one wasn't far above it. Thinking about it now
after reading your question regarding size, I guess that size alone should
not be the determining factor in that they're anadromous, I just assumed
that they were.



For the real answer, email Sam at:
I'm sure he'll be glad to hear from you, and will have the full answer.
No harm in mentioning that I gave you his Email address.


Thanks, I just might have to do that.

Darin

Darin Minor wrote:
Chas Wade wrote:

That's a tough question, Darin. Sam claims to be the first to prove
that Bulls are sometimes anadromous. The point here is that they
haven't found Bulls in the Dungeness, so the Graywolf bulls may not
be
anadromous. The question is, where are you catching the fish? How
big
are they that you've decided they must be anadromous?

The smallest I've caught is 22" the biggest is 27". All but 1 were
caught
below the hatchery and the one wasn't far above it. Thinking about it
now
after reading your question regarding size, I guess that size alone
should
not be the determining factor in that they're anadromous, I just
assumed
that they were.

Sounds like returning anadromous fish to me, but Sam will know.



For the real answer, email Sam at:
I'm sure he'll be glad to hear from you, and will have the full
answer.
No harm in mentioning that I gave you his Email address.


Thanks, I just might have to do that.

Don't be bashful, I think feedback from anglers is the kind of break
they like. Sam is a fisherman, he caught several of the tagged fish
himself, and had friends help catch the rest.

Chas
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"Chas Wade" wrote in message
news:axAWb.11075$uV3.23909@attbi_s51...
"David Snedeker" wrote:

What about the "Dollies" on the Graywolf, a trib of the Dungeness? Are
they
actually Bull Trout?


Sam says that the Graywolf has bulls, but the Dungeness has Dollies.
I'll open a new thread later with the details of last night's meeting.


Interesting, because that would be opposite of the distribution on the
systems emptying directly into the ocean (Ex: Hoh etc) right? (ie Graywolf
being a trib of the Dungeness for those not familiar with the geography
under discussion). I wonder what role the upper canyon plays? And I seem to
remember that the Forks was some kind of "seam" in the distribution
according to folklore.

Dave

"David Snedeker" wrote:

"Chas Wade" wrote in message
news:axAWb.11075$uV3.23909@attbi_s51...
"David Snedeker" wrote:

What about the "Dollies" on the Graywolf, a trib of the Dungeness?
Are
they
actually Bull Trout?


Sam says that the Graywolf has bulls, but the Dungeness has Dollies.
I'll open a new thread later with the details of last night's
meeting.


Interesting, because that would be opposite of the distribution on the
systems emptying directly into the ocean (Ex: Hoh etc) right? (ie
Graywolf
being a trib of the Dungeness for those not familiar with the geography
under discussion). I wonder what role the upper canyon plays? And I
seem to
remember that the Forks was some kind of "seam" in the distribution
according to folklore.


In fact, the Hoh was a complete surprise, backwards from the
conventional wisdom. Sam said that the biggest thing they've learned
is that they really have a lot to learn about bulls.

Which river's upper canyon are you referring to?

Chas
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