election map

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...


It's the problem when mean is used to produce an index like this.


Not claiming to be an expert on contributions and giving but I've been
taking a crash course in it so I can help lead a $2.5 million fund drive to
help rebuild a small community hospital in sothern Michigan. There are some
key items in this brief report which I think should be disclosed before
taking it as anything other than a computed index of giving based largely
upon a sample of tax returns.

1. Data comes from the IRS charitable deduction totals. Short form filers
who give but not enough to meet the standard deduction would not be included
in the data...

and

2. As it has been noted, the states have a higher portion of church
attendees with a mindset of giving to their church. The charitable
contributions in the IRS line would lump United Way and Cancer Society
donations with tithes to the local First Baptist Church since donations
qualify as a charitable donation. The United Way hits the news when it
starts spending 25% or more on overhead, it is not uncommon for churches to
use most of their contributions to operate the church and a much smaller
percentage ends up go to mission and outreach. I've seen it as small as 3%.

and lastly

3. Another commonality to many of the blue states is they have higher
property and income taxes than do the southern states, not to debate the
relative merits/non merits of the situation, but that does impact the amount
left for contributions.

From: "Wayne Knight"

The United Way hits the news when it
starts spending 25% or more on overhead, it is not uncommon for churches to
use most of their contributions to operate the church and a much smaller
percentage ends up go to mission and outreach.

Well, I know this is a stupid question, but how would the churches operate, if
not for the donations from the members? My wife and I belong to a small church
which barely gets by, and is supported mainly by membership dues and donations.
They do some missionary and outreach work, and that is supported by fundraising
events.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

"George Adams" wrote in message
...

Well, I know this is a stupid question, but how would the churches
operate, if
not for the donations from the members? My wife and I belong to a small
church
which barely gets by, and is supported mainly by membership dues and
donations.
They do some missionary and outreach work, and that is supported by
fundraising
events.

It's not a stupid question and a valid point to the argument Dave put out.
My only point is that both the United Way and the Local Church are charities
for the purpose of deductions under the IRS code but have different
standards of how the money is used. The same could be said for the boy and
girl scout programs.

George writes:

Well, I know this is a stupid question, but how would the churches operate,
if
not for the donations from the members? My wife and I belong to a small
church
which barely gets by, and is supported mainly by membership dues and
donations.
They do some missionary and outreach work, and that is supported by
fundraising
events.

There are a couple of churches nearby that feed senior citizens every Thursday.
The money to do it comes from volunteers and money from the church itself.

On 11 Nov 2004 03:30:18 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

George writes:

Well, I know this is a stupid question, but how would the churches operate,
if
not for the donations from the members? My wife and I belong to a small
church
which barely gets by, and is supported mainly by membership dues and
donations.
They do some missionary and outreach work, and that is supported by
fundraising
events.

There are a couple of churches nearby that feed senior citizens every Thursday.
The money to do it comes from volunteers and money from the church itself.



Undoubtably Church attendance skews the survey. And while churches
also undoubtably do do good works, most of the money goes towards
servicing the congregations. In other words the charitibale giving
ends up directly benefitting the givers. Here is a link to a site that
gives the percentage of the indivuidual state's populations who attend
church services.


http://www.theamericanchurch.org/states.htm

You'll notice that almost twice as many Mississippians attend as
opposed to Massachussians (or what ever they call themselves). So for
Massachussetts, and the other NE states with similiar attendance
numbers, to be low on the charitability scale is only logical.

On the other hand my home state of Wisconsin has almost as many church
goers as Mississippi and yet its near the bottom. I would have thought
our numbers would have been higher considering the horror stories I've
heard of the Lutheran Mafia visiting peoples' houses and telling them
that their giving has been too meager and that they should either
shell out or get out. There are 3x more Evagelicals in MS than in WI
though, which perhaps translates into more giving. Plus, are tuitions
to religious schools tax deductible? I imagine that there are far more
kids enrolled in "Christian Academies" in MS than in WI.


g.c.

From: George Cleveland

Massachussians (or what ever they call themselves)

"Taxans" g


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:05:23 -0600, George Cleveland
wrote:

(snipped)

Plus, are tuitions
to religious schools tax deductible? I imagine that there are far more
kids enrolled in "Christian Academies" in MS than in WI.


IIRC, no religious schooling isn't tax deductible. Or wasn't, last I
heard / read.

However there are some sorts of tradeoffs. Up in MN, the schools are
heavily subsidized by the church (for Catholic ones. I lived in a not
too rich Catholic neighborhood for many years). Many people whose
kids couldn't in any way afford a private school sent their kids to
church school. I think a lot of it is bookkeeping. So the church
schools come out of the 'charitable donation' in some ways, but not
directly. The voucher scheme would have been a big help _to the
church_ there. Donations would remain constant, but expenses would
drop like a rock.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:50:32 -0600, Cyli
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:05:23 -0600, George Cleveland
wrote:

(snipped)

Plus, are tuitions
to religious schools tax deductible? I imagine that there are far more
kids enrolled in "Christian Academies" in MS than in WI.


IIRC, no religious schooling isn't tax deductible. Or wasn't, last I
heard / read.

However there are some sorts of tradeoffs. Up in MN, the schools are
heavily subsidized by the church (for Catholic ones. I lived in a not
too rich Catholic neighborhood for many years). Many people whose
kids couldn't in any way afford a private school sent their kids to
church school. I think a lot of it is bookkeeping. So the church
schools come out of the 'charitable donation' in some ways, but not
directly. The voucher scheme would have been a big help _to the
church_ there. Donations would remain constant, but expenses would
drop like a rock.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)


Yep, I checked up on it too. Tuition is not a charitable deduction,
although you can set aside a tax free tuition account to pay for it.
But any other donation that would be made to the school, as long as it
was not in lieu of tuition, would be deductible.


g.c.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:50:32 -0600, Cyli
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:05:23 -0600, George Cleveland
wrote:

(snipped)

Plus, are tuitions
to religious schools tax deductible? I imagine that there are far more
kids enrolled in "Christian Academies" in MS than in WI.


IIRC, no religious schooling isn't tax deductible. Or wasn't, last I
heard / read.

However there are some sorts of tradeoffs. Up in MN, the schools are
heavily subsidized by the church (for Catholic ones. I lived in a not
too rich Catholic neighborhood for many years). Many people whose
kids couldn't in any way afford a private school sent their kids to
church school. I think a lot of it is bookkeeping. So the church
schools come out of the 'charitable donation' in some ways, but not
directly. The voucher scheme would have been a big help _to the
church_ there. Donations would remain constant, but expenses would
drop like a rock.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)


Yep, I checked up on it too. Tuition is not a charitable deduction,
although you can set aside a tax free tuition account to pay for it.
But any other donation that would be made to the school, as long as it
was not in lieu of tuition, would be deductible.


g.c.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:50:32 -0600, Cyli
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:05:23 -0600, George Cleveland
wrote:

(snipped)

Plus, are tuitions
to religious schools tax deductible? I imagine that there are far more
kids enrolled in "Christian Academies" in MS than in WI.


IIRC, no religious schooling isn't tax deductible. Or wasn't, last I
heard / read.

However there are some sorts of tradeoffs. Up in MN, the schools are
heavily subsidized by the church (for Catholic ones. I lived in a not
too rich Catholic neighborhood for many years). Many people whose
kids couldn't in any way afford a private school sent their kids to
church school. I think a lot of it is bookkeeping. So the church
schools come out of the 'charitable donation' in some ways, but not
directly. The voucher scheme would have been a big help _to the
church_ there. Donations would remain constant, but expenses would
drop like a rock.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)


Yep, I checked up on it too. Tuition is not a charitable deduction,
although you can set aside a tax free tuition account to pay for it.
But any other donation that would be made to the school, as long as it
was not in lieu of tuition, would be deductible.


g.c.