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"Tom Littleton" wrote in message
news:RegWg.385$lj2.265@trndny01...

"JR" wrote in message

I can understand the horror the right has of an HRC presidency, but I
think it greatly over-values the conventional wisdom about her supposed
unelectability.

JR

JR, I am pretty far removed from anything considered
"the Right", and I will tell you this flat-out: Hillary Clinton cannot
ever
win a presidential election, unless something radical changes about her
current polling numbers. Recent
polls consistently show that 42% of likely voters would
vote against her, without a named opponent. Given those negatives, I would
bet everything I own that she will never be able to win, ever, no matter
how
much money is raised.
The bet is off, should the GOP run Dick Cheney, but otherwise, any
Republican would beat her......easily.
Tom

I must concur!

Op

On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:05:06 -0700, JR wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 14:00:03 -0700, JR wrote:

Clearly a Hillary Clinton / John McCain Unity ticket would have slightly
more credibility

Credibility? No, if you mean other than a smattering of rabid partisans
and Clintonista-types. Chance to get elected? Maybe slightly...if the
"unknowns" they were being compared to were, oh, say, something like a
team-up of Lavrenty Beria and Saloth Sar...

I can understand the horror the right has of an HRC presidency, but I
think it greatly over-values the conventional wisdom about her supposed
unelectability.

JR

I can't speak for "the right" as I'm not sure of who you mean. As for
me, I don't have a "horror" of her getting elected, because at the end
of the day, it really wouldn't affect me all that much. I do think it
would lead to furthering of the (temporary) societal problems, albeit
serious ones, that the other half of the Billary show helped usher in.
But frankly, I don't think it matters as I don't think she stands a
chance of getting elected _as things stand today_. And not because she
is a Dem, but because, for example, even many Dem women (like registered
voter-types) don't like, trust, or respect her.

IMO, given the current situation and information available, Hillary just
isn't electable to national office, regardless of her political party.
And also IMO, making her the/a party nominee, even as VP, is about the
only thing in the current range of likely possibilities that the Dems
could do that would _absolutely_ cost them the Oval Office in 2008.

TC,
R

On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 23:51:46 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:

Plus, I see no real appeal in a merging of two
known political opportunists.

So you're in favor of simply abolishing the Executive, or really, all
elections, altogether...?

TC,
R
....OTOH, an election full of candidates who really didn't want to win
might be an interesting change, at least as a pause that refreshes, as
it were...

On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 23:56:33 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:


"JR" wrote in message

I can understand the horror the right has of an HRC presidency, but I
think it greatly over-values the conventional wisdom about her supposed
unelectability.

JR

JR, I am pretty far removed from anything considered
"the Right", and I will tell you this flat-out: Hillary Clinton cannot ever
win a presidential election, unless something radical changes about her
current polling numbers. Recent
polls consistently show that 42% of likely voters would
vote against her, without a named opponent. Given those negatives, I would
bet everything I own that she will never be able to win, ever, no matter how
much money is raised.
The bet is off, should the GOP run Dick Cheney, but otherwise, any
Republican would beat her......easily.
Tom


Well, hell, I'm probably as far to the left as this group goes, and I would
say the same thing. I cringe just thinking about it, and I was a FOB...

Otoh, no way will McCain ever get my vote.
He's a big a useful idiot as Bush is, and always ready to sell out in the end.

/daytripper (The only difference is, Bush really is an idiot...)

riverman wrote:


In any case, thats a horrible point of view, as it ensures the status quo.

But then, what doesn't?

And historically, have Americans ever felt so dispondent about the policial
process?

Yes.....many times.

If we lose complete faith (in reality, not just rhetorically) in
the our political system, this could be the start of the end of the 'great
experiment'.

No, that happened long about the 1750s.

Popular myths (and that indefatigable pinhead, Bismarck)
notwithstanding, politics is power brokerage, pure and
simple.....always has been.....always will be.

We just happen to be living through (well, those of us still living,
anyway) a period dominated by a bunch of ludicrously inept brokers.

Wolfgang
who knows that the ball has been in the air for a long time
now......it's just a matter of waiting to see who grabs
it.......um......or blows it to kingdom come.

Steve wrote:

...We vote. Some of us by our principles, some by our need to exploit our
vote. Ultimately it will result in new choices and directions, it
always has.

In either case, you generally do it badly.

This is an adolescent country with adolescent problems, we will find
our way.

Maybe. Adolescence is the end of the line for a lot of folks.

The sky is not falling.

Well, see, that's the problem. The sky is big and heavy; you never
know whether or not it's falling till.......well, you never know.

Wolfgang
so, what's dumber than a pessimist?.....an optimist. and what's dumber
than an optimist?.....uh huh.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 23:51:46 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:

Plus, I see no real appeal in a merging of two
known political opportunists.

So you're in favor of simply abolishing the Executive, or really, all
elections, altogether...?

TC,
R
...OTOH, an election full of candidates who really didn't want to win
might be an interesting change, at least as a pause that refreshes, as
it were...

no, but give me someone with SOME principles, if at
all possible..........
Tom

"Tom Littleton" wrote in message
news:LFoWg.2154$9Y1.1936@trndny03...


no, but give me someone with SOME principles, if at
all possible..........
Tom

It is my considered opinion that the entire political system needs an
over-haul, but I know that ain't gonna happen; so, I do my part by voting
against the status quo. Not much help, I know, but it's all I can do.

Op

"Steve" wrote in message
...
On 8 Oct 2006 17:51:22 -0700, "Wolfgang" wrote:


Steve wrote:

...We vote. Some of us by our principles, some by our need to exploit
our
vote. Ultimately it will result in new choices and directions, it
always has.

In either case, you generally do it badly.

Wow, you are usually so skilled in repartee.
This ain't your day, is it cupcake?
You have no idea how I vote, so this is really an air ball.


This is an adolescent country with adolescent problems, we will find
our way.

Maybe. Adolescence is the end of the line for a lot of folks.

That's it?!? No attack on my use of that metaphor? No comment about
substantiating the claim, no nuthin?
Sheesh.


The sky is not falling.

Well, see, that's the problem. The sky is big and heavy; you never
know whether or not it's falling till.......well, you never know.

Wolfgang
so, what's dumber than a pessimist?.....an optimist. and what's dumber
than an optimist?.....uh huh.

I so look forward to your charming attempts to steal my heart, but
this is just beneath you. Did ya think it would be self-evident; like
the use of that semicolon, without the need for you to point it out?
I expect better from you, this will go on your permanent record.

Hee, hee, hee.

Wolfgang
yeah, once again, it's as easy as it looks.

Mr. Opus McDopus wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
...

Steve wrote:


It will change when a real candidate with a compelling message steps
to the plate.

I don't care about a compelling message. I'll settle for honest, efficient
government.


Then you are ready to rid yourself of the bondage of the Dem and Repubs?

I like the policy positions of the Democratic party on the issues I care
about: the environment, fiscal discipline, diplomacy instead of
unilateralism, peace instead of war (especially an optional war based on
lies), lobbying reform, women's access to safe and legal abortion, civil
rights, health care reform, and on and on.

Since 2000 the country has been going to hell with the Republican
monopoly on government, and it will continue unless and until the
Democrats win power in Congress and and provide a much needed check on
this corrupt, arrogant regime.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.