An actual fly fishing thread

Well, actually, it is about fly tying.......

I have a friend named Vincent (Vinny). Vinny just "graduated" from
high school. He is 20 yo. He received a "certificate of completion"
rather than a HS diploma. Vinny has an IQ of 70. He was born of an
alcoholic mother and father, and removed from them soon after his
birth. Surprizingly, he has fairly good motor skills (he's a whiz at
Quitar Hero!), and can learn - it just takes him a lot longer. He is
not spastic and has a steady hand and good eyes. His hearing is
somewhat diminished since birth.

Situation: Vinny has tried working in a supermarket bagging, and as a
bus boy at a local restaurant. He hates both of these jobs and thinks
they are beneath him. He wants, *needs*, a different vocation. He is
creative and capable of sovling puzzles (jigsaw, for example).

Questions: How difficult would it be to teach someone like Vinny to
tie flies? And, if he is successful at doing so, where could he sell
his creations? I realize that breaking in to such a market would be
tough for most, but I wonder if Vinny could tie and make a "get by
living" tying flies. He lives with his single adoptive mother who is
a professional woman and makes a fairly good living. The most
important thing is that he be accepted and have some worth. Right now
he is down on himself thinking that he has no real worth. I am
working with him and trying to change his attitude.

How does Umqua select their tyers? Orvis? If he can learn to tie,
and I believe he can, I know of several places that would accept his
flies, but only a few gross at a time. How does one break into the
professional fly tying community?

Dave
(Hoping there are no smart ass remarks posted)

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:48:46 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

Well, actually, it is about fly tying.......

I have a friend named Vincent (Vinny). Vinny just "graduated" from
high school. He is 20 yo. He received a "certificate of completion"
rather than a HS diploma. Vinny has an IQ of 70. He was born of an
alcoholic mother and father, and removed from them soon after his
birth. Surprizingly, he has fairly good motor skills (he's a whiz at
Quitar Hero!), and can learn - it just takes him a lot longer. He is
not spastic and has a steady hand and good eyes. His hearing is
somewhat diminished since birth.

Situation: Vinny has tried working in a supermarket bagging, and as a
bus boy at a local restaurant. He hates both of these jobs and thinks
they are beneath him. He wants, *needs*, a different vocation. He is
creative and capable of sovling puzzles (jigsaw, for example).

Questions: How difficult would it be to teach someone like Vinny to
tie flies? And, if he is successful at doing so, where could he sell
his creations? I realize that breaking in to such a market would be
tough for most, but I wonder if Vinny could tie and make a "get by
living" tying flies. He lives with his single adoptive mother who is
a professional woman and makes a fairly good living. The most
important thing is that he be accepted and have some worth. Right now
he is down on himself thinking that he has no real worth. I am
working with him and trying to change his attitude.

How does Umqua select their tyers? Orvis? If he can learn to tie,
and I believe he can, I know of several places that would accept his
flies, but only a few gross at a time. How does one break into the
professional fly tying community?

Dave
(Hoping there are no smart ass remarks posted)

Oh, Tom, Frank...

What about guiding, rod making/finishing along with tying flies? Hell,
how hard could it be if Reid and Littleton can do it...? You didn't
really think there wouldn't be smart-assed remarks, did you...?

Seriously, though, there are lots of fishing-related activities that
probably wouldn't make him rich, but would allow an income of some kind.
OTOH, there's a similar guy down here who makes crab pots and wound up
selling them to Wal-Mart and other large outlets. IIRC, he now owns a
reasonable business. Is there a reason for it to be fishing related or
are you just looking for any and all ideas?

TC,
R

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Questions: How difficult would it be to teach someone like Vinny to
tie flies? And, if he is successful at doing so, where could he sell
his creations?

It probably wouldn't be too difficult if he has good motor skills. Try
it and see, you can be patient with him.

For selling flies, you might approach the local shops.

Tim Lysyk

On Sep 24, 7:43*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:48:46 -0400, Dave LaCourse





wrote:
Well, actually, it is about fly tying.......

I have a friend named Vincent (Vinny). *Vinny just "graduated" from
high school. *He is 20 yo. *He received a "certificate of completion"
rather than a HS diploma. *Vinny has an IQ of 70. *He was born of an
alcoholic mother and father, and removed from them soon after his
birth. *Surprizingly, he has fairly good motor skills (he's a whiz at
Quitar Hero!), and can learn - it just takes him a lot longer. *He is
not spastic and has a steady hand and good eyes. *His hearing is
somewhat diminished since birth.

Situation: *Vinny has tried working in a supermarket bagging, and as a
bus boy at a local restaurant. *He hates both of these jobs and thinks
they are beneath him. *He wants, *needs*, a different vocation. *He is
creative and capable of sovling puzzles (jigsaw, for example). *

Questions: *How difficult would it be to teach someone like Vinny to
tie flies? *And, if he is successful at doing so, where could he sell
his creations? *I realize that breaking in to such a market would be
tough for most, but I wonder if Vinny could tie and make a "get by
living" tying flies. *He lives with his single adoptive mother who is
a professional woman and makes a fairly good living. *The most
important thing is that he be accepted and have some worth. *Right now
he is down on himself thinking that he has no real worth. *I am
working with him and trying to change his attitude.

How does Umqua select their tyers? *Orvis? *If he can learn to tie,
and I believe he can, I know of several places that would accept his
flies, but only a few gross at a time. *How does one break into the
professional fly tying community?

Dave
(Hoping there are no smart ass remarks posted)

Oh, Tom, Frank...

What about guiding, rod making/finishing along with tying flies? *Hell,
how hard could it be if Reid and Littleton can do it...? *You didn't
really think there wouldn't be smart-assed remarks, did you...?

Seriously, though, there are lots of fishing-related activities that
probably wouldn't make him rich, but would allow an income of some kind.
OTOH, there's a similar guy down here who makes crab pots and wound up
selling them to Wal-Mart and other large outlets. *IIRC, he now owns a
reasonable business. *Is there a reason for it to be fishing related or
are you just looking for any and all ideas? *

Tying flies can be done. I taught fly tying to a five year old a
couple of weeks ago. This is a lot like teaching Vinny.
Both my brother and sister are a lot like Vinney. My brother makes
wooden planters, takes care of folks animals when they're on vacation
and he's also the relay/telecoms guy for the local volunteer fire
department (to include taking the GPS readings of the extent of range
fires). He can barely read, but makes up for it with an incredible
memory and the ability to watch something being done mechanically and
repeat it move for move.
Try working with Vinny for a couple a few weeks. Advance in baby
steps. An hour spent getting the thread on the hook just right for
the initial wraps may be needed. Don't turn it into a marathon unless
he's really into it. Don't talk about it as a money making thing.
Start him off by finding out if he has the interest/talent.
Dave, please email me if you have any questions. I've been
volunteering and working with Vinnys all my life.
Frank Reid

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:43:27 -0500, wrote:

Is there a reason for it to be fishing related or
are you just looking for any and all ideas?

It doesn't need to be fishing related. I was at Orvis in Manchester,
VT today and saw a Down's Syndrome young man mesmerized by the
in-store Orvis tyer, and the idea of Vinny tying came to mind. He
needs a path other than the one normally followed by such handicapped
(hope that's not too un-pc) kids. Another idea was to see if we could
get him interested into going to a pet grooming school.

When he is over to the house he shows an interest in my fly tying
station. I'm sure he could do it (with a lot of help from me and
others), but the marketing part has me stumped.

He can not write (cursively) and prints everything, but he can read,
albeit at a low grade level.

Dave

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:05:04 -0700 (PDT), Frank Reid © 2008
wrote:

Dave, please email me if you have any questions. I've been
volunteering and working with Vinnys all my life.

Thanks, Frank, I'll keep that in mind. I've been working with Vinny
for a couple of years - sort of like a surrogate grandfather. I've
taken him fishing with my younger (8 and 7) grandsons and he fits
right in with them.

Thanks for the advice. Exactly what I was looking for.

Know anything about marketing flies?

Dave

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:02:57 GMT, Tim Lysyk
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Questions: How difficult would it be to teach someone like Vinny to
tie flies? And, if he is successful at doing so, where could he sell
his creations?

It probably wouldn't be too difficult if he has good motor skills. Try
it and see, you can be patient with him.

For selling flies, you might approach the local shops.

Tim Lysyk

There's only ONE way to do anything with Vin, and that's with
patience. I think I can get a shop or two to buy some, but to be
anywhere near "successful", he's going to have to sell more than a few
gross.

Thanks, Tim/

Dave

On Sep 24, 9:23*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:05:04 -0700 (PDT), Frank Reid © 2008

wrote:
Dave, please email me if you have any questions. *I've been
volunteering and working with Vinnys all my life.

Thanks, Frank, I'll keep that in mind. *I've been working with Vinny
for a couple of years - sort of like a surrogate grandfather. *I've
taken him fishing with my younger (8 and 7) grandsons and he fits
right in with them.

Thanks for the advice. *Exactly what I was looking for. *

Know anything about marketing flies?

Dave

First things first, start with samples to your local fly shop. Best
to have a "killer fly" of your own design and then some semi-unique
standards for the local area. Have the fly shop give you a price
point then add at least 35%. Reduce that when you can deliver bulk.
Frank Reid

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...

Questions: How difficult would it be to teach someone like Vinny to
tie flies? And, if he is successful at doing so, where could he sell
his creations?

Conventional marketing theory seems helpful.
1 = Production: In some places charitable societies
know about "sheltered workshops" where certain
trades are taught or practised. These might offer
Vinny an environment in which he could thrive
(whether alone or in a group of several tyers.)
2 = Marketing: You would probably get an answer
from at least some of the local fly vendors or
mail-order houses.
Other respondents seemed to agree that, with
time and appropriate teaching, anyone can learn
to produce marketable flies. A friend helped start
a small fly production centre in Ecuador, staffed by
village women who had never seen a trout or a fly,
marketing via Orvis I believe. Canadian federal
prisons used to teach fly tying and marketed the product
-- nicely uniform and pretty but poor models.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:17:00 -0700 (PDT), Frank Reid © 2008
wrote:

First things first, start with samples to your local fly shop. Best
to have a "killer fly" of your own design and then some semi-unique
standards for the local area. Have the fly shop give you a price
point then add at least 35%. Reduce that when you can deliver bulk.

Good advice. I'll let you know how everything turns out. I have Vin
for dinner tonight. Joanne is in Boston at some conference. I'll see
how it goes.

Agaiin, thanks.

Dave